Omniforce he/him Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 (edited) I know that it's become a pretty popular theory recently that Shallan's mother was one of the Heralds. While I'm still on the fence with it a thought occurred that might add weight to the theory. It's known that changes to the spiritweb can be inheritable. I'll try to comeback later with references, but I remember reading a WoB that states that Inquisitors could have children and the Hemalurgy could cause weird things to happen to their kids. Alongside that, the Lighteyes on Roshar are inherited traits from Radiants who's eye colors were changed by their nahel bonds. I wonder if the same applies to Heralds. If they can still have children, then would the damage to their spiritwebs (like what is described with Nale) also be inheritable? The Davar family has a lot of reasons to be pretty messed up. Growing up with such an abusive father, and in Shallan's case killing both parents, could certainly cause severe trauma to almost any child. However, if their Mother was a Herald, with her soul worn down by millenia of trauma and whatever affliction Heralds and other cognitive shadows get, could she have passed that down? More importantly would that contribute to just how badly her children are dealing with their trauma. If trauma manifest as damage on a normal person's spiritweb in the Cosmere, what happens if someone is born with a partially weakened one to start? Edited August 2, 2024 by Omniforce 1
alder24 Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 3 hours ago, Omniforce said: Mistborn spoilers: Spoiler but I remember reading a WoB that states that Inquisitors could have children and the Hemalurgy could cause weird things to happen to their kids. This is the Stormlight Archive section only. Any information from books other than SA should be put in a spoiler box with a proper warning before it. Please edit you post and put this into a spoiler box, like I did in the quote above (top right corner -> three dots menu -> edit). Mistborn spoilers: Spoiler The power from spikes isn't transmissible to children (more recent WoB), but there would be some complications, whatever it means. I think it means that because inquisitors are no longer humans - they are a separate race - this would cause some changes to the genome of their kids, making them less human as well - they won't be inquisitors, but they will inherit some of their traits. Whether or not this means a damaged spirit web, we don't know.WoBs: Spoiler Questioner I wondered if an Inquisitor had children, if they would inherit stronger Inquisitor abilities, or if they would just inherit the lesser lines from being a Seeker, for example? Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. I don't think I've ever been asked this before... The way Hemalurgy works, if you're not aware, you are taking someone else's soul, and you are basically nailing it to your soul... That won't affect the children. So you will have the weaker lines. They have tried that. Unfortunately. Berlin signing (May 14, 2019) Spoiler zas678 You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but there also could be...complications. /r/Fantasy_Bookclub Alloy of Law Q&A (Jan. 17, 2012) Spoiler Axies (paraphrased) Is Hoid human? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes... but. Hoid is... you can say that he is still human, but his DNA have changed. Now he is human but you wouldn't call him Homo sapiens anymore. It happens something similar with the Steel Inquisitors Barcelona signing (Nov. 3, 2016) 4 hours ago, Omniforce said: I wonder if the same applies to Heralds. If they can still have children, then would the damage to their spiritwebs (like what is described with Nale) also be inheritable? I don't remember any examples of a damaged spirit web being genetically transmitted. Lighteyes being transmissible is something different because this isn't damage done to the spirit web, it's a change, more investiture in the soul which is passed down. Herald's soul is cracked, tortured and exhausted with their unnaturally long lifespan, I don't know if that would be transferred to their kid and I find this unlikely. But if Heralds have to give a part of their soul to their children then yes, that might influence them and make them more mentally susceptible. Warbreaker spoiler: Spoiler However something IS transferred into kids of a Returned/Cognitive Shadow. Descendants of a Returned have something more in them, they are better with Awakening, they have Royal Locks which allow them to control their appearance and some other features. But we don't know what are the mechanisms of this, so it's hard to say why this is happening and if cracks in the soul are passed down too. Warbreaker epilogue: Quote “Those are my secrets,” he said, not looking at her. “Though you should have figured out that Returned can change their forms.” She raised an eyebrow. “You’ve got Returned blood in you,” he said. “The royal line. Where do you think that ability to change your hair color comes from?” Spoiler Questioner Why or how are the Heralds the only ones we've seen so far that are affected by magical maladies due to either their high Investiture or long lives? Brandon Sanderson I would argue the Fused are having the same situation, so they're not the only ones. The why and how... there's a whole host of things going on here. Like a lot of physical and mental illness, it's not one thing or the other. But it is a compound of other things. One is going so long without certain protections that you kind of need to take. The human being's soul might be immortal, depending on your argument in the cosmere. (That's really up to you.) But they certainly aren't meant for thousands of years of existence, the same way that our bodies aren't. There's some of that. There's some of the things they've been through. Like, legit trauma; this is not all simply a magical ailment. You've got people with PTSD, layers of PTSD on top of layers of PTSD, for thousands of years, bearing things that no human being without their level of Investiture would even be able to bear. You've got that manifestation, you've got their own sense of guilt. And these things are all just kind of overlapping together with the fact they've been alive for so, so very long. And a lot of the people that you've seen otherwise have not been alive nearly... orders of magnitude more for the Heralds. The only people you've seen that are that old are: some of the dragons, Hoid, and Vessels of various Shards. And you're basically at that group. And this is a group who knows what they're doing. Either they were built like the dragons, this is part of their innate nature, that they are functionally immortal. Or you are getting the Shards. Or you're getting people that are 300 years old, which is a very different thing, cosmere-wise, than having lived for thousands and thousands of years, part of it being torture. Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023) 4 hours ago, Omniforce said: The Davar family has a lot of reasons to be pretty messed up. Growing up with such an abusive father, and in Shallan's case killing both parents, could certainly cause severe trauma to almost any child. And there was also an Unmade influencing their family: Spoiler Questioner Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade? Brandon Sanderson Um, yes. Questioner Was it the corrupting-- Brandon Sanderson I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018) Spoiler Questioner There's a scene where you can see from the perspective of Nan Balat, Shallan's brother, where he's maiming an insect. It's described as soothing his aches. Is that in any way related to how Kaladin feels depressed and down during the Weeping even in his early childhood? Brandon Sanderson What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive) Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)
Duxredux he/him Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 So... this touches on some tricky IRL topics that need sensitive handling. The question of heritable disease can be troubling for some. I've known people who were distraught that their child inherited the same heart disease that was in the process of killing them and did eventually kill them. Mental illness can have a genetic component that affects a child's likelihood of developing a similar illness to a parent in IRL. Depression for example tends to run in families. However there is an accompanying complication where mental disorders might develop simply because the children suffered in an abusive environment. With the Davar children, there seems to be a possibility of mundane heritable genetic illness, sDNA heritage which feels poorly understood at this point, an Unmade wrecking their home, and abuse in the Davar home in general. Because of this, I wouldn't use the Davar family as evidence that Spiritweb damage is heritable simply because the abuse could lead to the disorders and trauma by itself, nor would I know the degree that it affected the likelihood of developing their disorders. There's too many complicating factors, but Shallan certainly doesn't need an inherited damaged Spiritweb to be thoroughly traumatized by killing both her parents as a small girl on top of the abuse she experienced and witnessed. Greater Cosmere spoilers Spoiler We know that there are magics inherited. Yes, certain things will be heritable, burning Lerasium will change the Spiritweb and the change is heritable by progeny. Without a lot more information though, knowing that it happens is a far cry from establishing it as a causal root of Shallan's mental illness.
Ookla she/her Posted August 2, 2024 Posted August 2, 2024 5 hours ago, Duxredux said: So... this touches on some tricky IRL topics that need sensitive handling. The question of heritable disease can be troubling for some. I've known people who were distraught that their child inherited the same heart disease that was in the process of killing them and did eventually kill them. Mental illness can have a genetic component that affects a child's likelihood of developing a similar illness to a parent in IRL. Depression for example tends to run in families. However there is an accompanying complication where mental disorders might develop simply because the children suffered in an abusive environment. With the Davar children, there seems to be a possibility of mundane heritable genetic illness, sDNA heritage which feels poorly understood at this point, an Unmade wrecking their home, and abuse in the Davar home in general. Because of this, I wouldn't use the Davar family as evidence that Spiritweb damage is heritable simply because the abuse could lead to the disorders and trauma by itself, nor would I know the degree that it affected the likelihood of developing their disorders. There's too many complicating factors, but Shallan certainly doesn't need an inherited damaged Spiritweb to be thoroughly traumatized by killing both her parents as a small girl on top of the abuse she experienced and witnessed. Greater Cosmere spoilers Reveal hidden contents We know that there are magics inherited. Yes, certain things will be heritable, burning Lerasium will change the Spiritweb and the change is heritable by progeny. Without a lot more information though, knowing that it happens is a far cry from establishing it as a causal root of Shallan's mental illness. I do want to note that inheritable diseases aren't always inherited. I know someone who does research into the genome and how certain genes can be turned on or off based on environmental stimuli; just because someone has a genetic predisposition for an illness doesn't mean they'll contract it, because if their environment has the correct stimuli (or lacks the "dangerous" ones), those genes won't get turned on. But that's all I know. I don't really understand how it works; just the basic concept of it. Who knows, though? Maybe Spiritwebs work in a similar way--if Shallan did get some of her quirks by inheriting Spiritweb shenanigans from a Heraldic parent, maybe the tells wouldn't have shown up if she'd been raised in a different environment.
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