F.steel A. Bendalloy combination thoughts

[strmblsd he/him]

So feruchemical steel is speed and allomantic Bendalloy is speed bubbles. So I believe u saw somewhere that a Bendalloy savant would be able to join their speed bubble onto themselves so say the were a savant with this.. they could tap speed to already go super fast then with a speed bubble hooked onto themselves they could move even faster. so would this work? Any problems with this anywhere

[Duxredux he/him]

This can have complications because the speed bubble gets jolted as it absorbs the momentum of objects passing through the boundary as the Slider runs and as the frame of reference can be shifted based on the objects entering the speed bubble. Too much interference, and it will pop the bubble. I had a question of what happens if a train with a Cadmium bubble on the front went plowing through downtown Elendel, and after some digging I found the bubble would get popped once it hit anything major. The same is likely true of a runner with an Bendalloy bubble anchored to them.

Some relevant WoBs. First one is specifically Brandon talking about how anchoring a speed bubble to yourself will introduce complications - and where we learn that this is something a Savant could do.

Quote

Questioner

So my quick question: Can you use Identity (I love the speed bubbles!) to anchor speed bubbles to yourself?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, this is possible. That's less a matter of Identity. What’s gonna happen there, like, the more someone uses the powers, the more familiar and intermingled with their soul the powers become, and they are able to accomplish things that others can't. This would be like a Mistborn learning to hover a coin, right, which they can do, but most think you can't. That's the sort of level we're going with.

Necarion

So a savant could?

Brandon Sanderson

A savant could totally do that. The problem is, things moving in and out of a speed bubble, there's a transference of energy. This is how we keep speed bubbles from irradiating people when light moves through them, right, red shift. And so there's a transfer of energy directly from the Spiritual Realm, which means that moving with a speed bubble, you're gonna run into that, and it's gonna be, it's gonna cause all kinds of problems, but it would be possible.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

Quote

Kurkistan

Okay, so I'm contractually obligated to ask about time bubbles one more time.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Kurkistan

So what's up with frame of reference for time bubbles; in that obviously if you make a bubble and it's still it's not really still, like time moves differently but--

Brandon Sanderson

We deal with that a little bit in Era 2 Book 2 [Shadows of Self], where we talk about the fact that you know-- obviously the bubble is moving with the planet. So they're not-- the frame of reference is not absolute.

Kurkistan

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

And so we talk about sorta' the idea of mass and momentum and time bubbles and things like that.

Kurkistan

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

For instance you can make a time bubble on a train.

Kurkistan

Oh and it stays on the train?!

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but when you start catching stuff off of the train, it's gonna' jar each time, and it's probably going to ruin your time bubble, right?

Kurkistan

So does it get it's "anchor" from-- it's asking all the things that are within it what they think "still" is?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. That's a good way of looking at it. Frame of reference for the Cognitive things around. Make sense?

Kurkistan

Okay, the things around or the things within it, specifically?

Brandon Sanderson

The things that it's cutting into, specifically, but yeah.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

So, yes, people have asked about this, but this is totally the kind of thing that's worth confirming that it's been considered.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

If you had a route specifically designed for this, it might work well. For example, just a long rail in the air. That way nothing new is entering the bubble, so there shouldn't be much interference.

You could also add duralumin to the mix, which should compress time even more, so you go even faster.

[strmblsd he/him]

ok I decided to come back to this because I saw something that caught my eye. it states in the alloy of law that you are still in the bubbles area of affect if any part of you is touching the bubble. meaning you could create say an infinitely small bubble inside of yourself and doing this would make your whole body have the effect of the bubble. that would eliminate the problem of outside interferences such as air hitting it and other stuff to.

thoughts?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

4 hours ago, strmblsd said:

ok I decided to come back to this because I saw something that caught my eye. it states in the alloy of law that you are still in the bubbles area of affect if any part of you is touching the bubble. meaning you could create say an infinitely small bubble inside of yourself and doing this would make your whole body have the effect of the bubble. that would eliminate the problem of outside interferences such as air hitting it and other stuff to.

thoughts?

I was just thinking that myself. Speed Bubbles can be shaped by the user, Wayne showed us that. Though I feel like you couldn't make a Speed Bubble that small, maybe just have it wrapped around your body instead.

On 7/2/2024 at 9:08 PM, Speeding Steelrunner said:

You could also add duralumin to the mix, which should compress time even more, so you go even faster.

You don't even need duralumin, a WOB stated that as you tap speed, your whole body speeds up which causes your metals to burn faster.

Meaning that the more speed you tap, he faster you'd burn your bendalloy, meaning time would be compressed even more.

I really want to see this combo, probably in a more modern day setting just so that the abundance of aluminum and Mechanical Metallic Arts will at least give other people a small chance at survival, also cheaper Bendalloy.

Edit:

Now that I think on it, they'd probably suffer from wind resistance more, so there'd be a lower cap on how fast they can go while their Speed Bubble is up compared to other Steelrunners. More so if they're tapping a lot of speed.

Though they shouldn't need to tap much speed at all, since tapping speed increases allomantic burn speed, which results in more time acceleration, which results in them moving even faster.

So they would only need to tap at, probably just around double or triple rate while their Speed Bubble is up, making their Speed Bubble twice or thrice as fast as normal Speed Bubbles, which is all they'd really need. So they would probably be forced to be conservative with their speed.

Edited November 7, 2024 by JustQuestin2004

[strmblsd he/him]

20 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I was just thinking that myself. Speed Bubbles can be shaped by the user, Wayne showed us that. Though I feel like you couldn't make a Speed Bubble that small, maybe just have it wrapped around your body instead.

You don't even need duralumin, a WOB stated that as you tap speed, your whole body speeds up which causes your metals to burn faster.

Meaning that the more speed you tap, he faster you'd burn your bendalloy, meaning time would be compressed even more.

I really want to see this combo, probably in a more modern day setting just so that the abundance of aluminum and Mechanical Metallic Arts will at least give other people a small chance at survival, also cheaper Bendalloy.

Edit:

Now that I think on it, they'd probably suffer from wind resistance more, so there'd be a lower cap on how fast they can go while their Speed Bubble is up compared to other Steelrunners. More so if they're tapping a lot of speed.

Though they shouldn't need to tap much speed at all, since tapping speed increases allomantic burn speed, which results in more time acceleration, which results in them moving even faster.

So they would only need to tap at, probably just around double or triple rate while their Speed Bubble is up, making their Speed Bubble twice or thrice as fast as normal Speed Bubbles, which is all they'd really need. So they would probably be forced to be conservative with their speed.

I also had the thought because it states that bendalloy makes you go about 8 times as fast so you could use that to store speed super effectively also and make yourself constantly gain speed even going at normal speeds while storing and be storing a ridculous amount of speed

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

5 hours ago, strmblsd said:

I also had the thought because it states that bendalloy makes you go about 8 times as fast so you could use that to store speed super effectively also and make yourself constantly gain speed even going at normal speeds while storing and be storing a ridculous amount of speed

Ah, that was retconned by Brandon, Speed Bubbles go way faster than 8 times. Especially in Alloy of Law where they have a conversation while an explosion was slowly exploding in front of them.

But also, if you store speed and make your whole body slower, that also means you'd burn your metals slower, meaning your Speed bubble would be slower. 

[strmblsd he/him]

8 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Ah, that was retconned by Brandon, Speed Bubbles go way faster than 8 times. Especially in Alloy of Law where they have a conversation while an explosion was slowly exploding in front of them.

But also, if you store speed and make your whole body slower, that also means you'd burn your metals slower, meaning your Speed bubble would be slower. 

that is true and it would just be about finding that meduim ground. i wonder how someone like this would effect the books in stuff. or if someone was a steel compounder and then spiked themselves with bendalloy. there are soo many combinations for this.

[Light In the Darkness]

3 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Ah, that was retconned by Brandon, Speed Bubbles go way faster than 8 times. Especially in Alloy of Law where they have a conversation while an explosion was slowly exploding in front of them.

But also, if you store speed and make your whole body slower, that also means you'd burn your metals slower, meaning your Speed bubble would be slower.

Good point! It's fairly clear from the Wax & Wayne books that the temporal compression rate is tied to a few things, including strength of innate power, skill/savantism, and rate of bendalloy burn. However, we see with Bleeder that F!Steel has the ability to match, approximately, the speed enhancement of a speed bubble - while inside one, Wax, Wayne &c. see Bleeder, obviously tapping speed, moving at apparently a normal speed outside of it. Granted, the amount of speed she was tapping was enough to literally be moving in bullet time; she isn't sprinting across the room either - just walking, IIRC. Average human walking speed is roughly 5 ft/s, average bullet speed from 1890 (steam-era) was something like 2500 ft/s, which means she was tapping speed at roughly 500 times normal - if she was jogging instead of walking, about 250 times. I might just be wrong about how fast she was going, but speed bubbles generally seem to let you see bullets at a speed that lets them be dodged, which means they probably compress time similarly and she appeared to be normal speed from inside the bubble, implying the same thing I calculated in my rough math above - the temporal compression they were achieving was likely about 500x normal. 

The problem you mention with the effective speed compounding at work here is an interesting one; it's in line with a thread I made years ago about how F!Nicrosil works, since you're storing your ability to store your ability to store....etc. Its hard to answer, but since the effects don't overlap nearly as much, it seems like an equilibrium would be reached eventually, but it would depend on the amount of bendalloy the user has and the rate at which they burn it. This could still very easily and ridiculously multiply the amount of speed you can store over time, as shown above, assuming you have enough bendalloy to keep the bubble up nearly continuously. It would probably feel horrible though, because you would be perceiving time as if inside your speed bubble - you would feel like you were moving horrendously slow, but your real-time speed would be normal. It would be quite the brain trip, and would take a lot of practice to get used to.