Stormtide_Leviathan Posted June 15, 2024 Posted June 15, 2024 Silver is weird in the cosmere. We know it has effects on investiture in the cosmere across multiple systems- it kills shades, it repels aether spores, it's used in parts of the Raysium dagger used to kill Jezrien. But, for some reason, it has no known use in the metallic arts. It's such a strange outlier, especially when the fabrial-science epigraphs imply that all the metallic arts metals have some kind of cosmere-wide properties that in some way relate to their metallic arts effects. And yet here silver is, with the same thing being true, but not connected to the metallic arts. What if it *does* have a use in the metallic arts- just differently than other metals? What if it exists as a modifier to the 16 normal metals (plus godmetals) so that it exists in the metallic arts without throwing the otherwise orderly system into disarray? The common trend in what silver does seems to be interacting with cognitive entities. And we know that, when Kelsier became a cognitive entity, he was no longer able to burn metals. Perhaps silver is the missing link, somehow, that lets cognitive entities like kelsier use metals. I'm not sure how, exactly, it would do this- maybe you simply have to alloy silver with the proper metal though this has problems especially with regards to electrum which is significantly silver by mass. If it was just a matter of alloying, that would mean if Kelsier were to burn electrum he'd get the gold effect rather than electrum. And while it's believable that he never burned electrum since becoming a cognitive entity, it still seems odd and makes you wonder how he *would* get the electrum effect. So maybe it's more complicated than just alloying. Maybe you have to burn it at the same time as burning another metal? Maybe it's a metal that only only cognitive entities can burn? There's possibilities with regards to the specifics of how this might work 1
Treamayne Posted June 15, 2024 Posted June 15, 2024 3 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said: The common trend in what silver does seems to be interacting with cognitive entities. And we know that, when Kelsier became a cognitive entity, he was no longer able to burn metals. Perhaps silver is the missing link, somehow, that lets cognitive entities like kelsier use metals. Interesting theory. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be true, since the SR quality of Silver is to destroy investiture. Spoiler Argent It seems there is a special interaction between silver and Investiture, in at least certain places in the Cosmere. We've seen how silver interacts with aethers, and we've seen over on Threnody. So that makes silver the second really really special metal to interact with investiture. Is the plan now to have aluminum block investiture, and silver destroy investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's the way I'm going with it. To make a distinction between them, that's where we're going. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Since Silver destroys investiture, I think it is unlikely to help Connect investiture with Cognitive Shadows. Though Electrum shows that Silver in an alloy does not always retain the destructive properties. (whereas most Aluminum Alloys retain some level of blocking investiture). 3 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said: it kills shades, it repels aether spores, Do you have this reversed? Silver Kills Spores, and repels Shades - but I don't think we have seen any instances of Silver Killing a Shade or Spores being repelled by Silver. SfSitFoH and Tress Spoilers: Spoiler SSFH: Quote Nearby, a shade drifted toward the boundary of the waystop. When it touched the thin barrier of silver on the ground, the silver crackled like sparks and drove the thing backward with a sudden jerk. The shade floated the other way. Tress Ch 43: Quote Fortunately, ships on the spore seas are built to prevent this, with all seams pitched and sealed. The silver eventually did its job—and everyone walked across dead grey spores, grinding them against the wood. Tress Ch 59: Quote The boat had a line of silver in the hull, which left dead spores trailing them in a dissipating wake. 3 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said: And yet here silver is, with the same thing being true, but not connected to the metallic arts. Do you know why Silver is not in the Metallic Arts? (Mistborn Spoilers) Spoiler Mistborn Annotations: Spoiler Brandon Sanderson One interesting aspect of the book that I haven't mentioned yet comes with the metal of tin. Originally, tin wasn't one of the Allomantic metals—I used silver instead. You see, I originally paired silver and pewter together, thinking that pewter had a significant amount of silver in it. Well, turns out that isn't the case. (Remember, each set of paired metals is a metal and an alloy made from it.) My false impression on the belief that pewter is a silver/lead alloy goes back to my childhood. I remember when I used to paint lead fantasy figures that I bought at the local hobby store. One of the employees told me that they would be going up in price because the manufacturers wanted the figures to be safer. They were going to cast them out of pewter instead of lead, because pewter is much less toxic. I asked what the difference between pewter and lead was, and the employee told me that pewter is lead PLUS silver, and that's why the figures cost more. He meant tin, I guess. Either way, that's stayed with me for quite a long time. I soundly resisted changing silver to tin during the first drafts of the book, even when I found out the truth. The problem is, I really liked the name "Silvereye" for those who burn silver/tin. It sounds far slicker than "Tineye." I eventually came around, however. Consistency in the magic system is more important than a single cool-sounding name. I blame Hobby Town in Lincoln Nebraska for my pains. Mistborn: The Final Empire Annotations (Feb. 12, 2007) Quote Brandon Sanderson Chapter Eleven A few things to watch out for. There might be an extra "Silver" or "Silvereye" stuck in the books somewhere. If you read the annotations in the last book, you’ll know that I changed the Allomantic metal of silver into tin at the last minute. I couldn't find a good alloy of silver, and though I liked "Silvereye" as a word much better than "Tineye" I decided to go with the choice that was more logical for worldbuilding, rather than the one that sounded better. There could still be a spare silver or two hanging around in this book, since it was written before I made the swap. (I just found one in Book Three and got it changed right in time.) The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 2, 2007) Non-Mistborn Spoilers removed: Quote Argent But silver is still non-Allomantic. No silvereyes. Brandon Sanderson No, non-Allomantic, yup. No silvereyes. This is my nod towards silvereye-ness, and yeah, there we go. Argent So would [silver] be effective [Redacted]? Brandon Sanderson Well, you'll have to find out. RAFO! Footnote: Argent tried. He also horribly mangled his last question, but it got RAFO'd, so that doesn't matter... Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Quote Questioner Was there an Allomantic power that didn't make it into the book? Brandon Sanderson Was there an Allomantic power that didn't make it into the book. Oh... Yes, but I'm trying to remember. I had like two dozen of them? Oh boy I can't even remember the ones that I discarded. I was going to do a lot more stuff externally, stuff that like wasn't inside of you and it didn't end up working out. The big thing that I talk about with Allomancy that changed is originally I was using...silver as one of the metals, this is-- this is because... Dumb story time, so when I was a kid I painted these little miniatures that you do in D&D so your little guys can actually fight each other, right? And my brother still does this, they're awesome, I was terrible at it, but I painted these little guys. And at one point I went-- and they used to be lead, and then they realized that lead kills you *laughter* and so--or maybe it just makes you strange, I can't remember--I went and all of the prices had gone up, like by a double, because they had made them out of pewter instead. And I said to the guy "What is up with this, you are totally ripping us off. My figures now cost us 50 cents instead of--" I don't remember what it was and he went "Uh yeah it's because pewter has silver in it man. You're buying little silver figures now" and I went "Oh. That's cool." And I bought them. And so for years I thought pewter was an alloy of silver and I wrote an entire book. An Entire Book. The whole first Mistborn book with silvereyes and pewterarms until it went to my beta readers and like "There's almost no silver in pewter Brandon, you don't even really need it. Everything in this magic system works except that." and I went "Well maybe we can just pretend in this world pewter--" "No that's stupid" *laughter* So I had to change it to tin which is actually what you find in pewter. To this day my assistant Peter, who is my continuity editor, came to me and said "You realize you wrote silvereye instead of tineye in the newest Mistborn book that you just finished? It's been ten years Brandon get over it." *laughter* Still happens. Firefight Seattle UBooks signing (Jan. 6, 2015) 1
Stormtide_Leviathan Posted June 15, 2024 Author Posted June 15, 2024 6 hours ago, Treamayne said: Interesting theory. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to be true, since the SR quality of Silver is to destroy investiture. I'm not convinced this is 100% accurate, and I don't think the WOB necessarily disproves it (even if we're taking wobs as definitive proof of anything). If silver's thing is that it's able to physically interacted with cognitive entities, the primary use of that ability would still be for fighting them in some way so it would be fair to describe it like that, especially in the context of differentiating it from aluminum. Like if silver *were* like i described, I still think it'd be fair to respond to that question with a yes, aluminum blocks investiture and silver destroys it. Cause that is *a* significant difference between them and in the context the person was asking probably the most significant one. And if there is more to silver, it might be something he wants to keep close to his chest and deliberately not give more. 6 hours ago, Treamayne said: Do you have this reversed? Silver Kills Spores, and repels Shades - but I don't think we have seen any instances of Silver Killing a Shade or Spores being repelled by Silver. Yeah I just mixed this up 6 hours ago, Treamayne said: Do you know why Silver is not in the Metallic Arts? (Mistborn Spoilers) I mean I do, but I don't think that really affects anything. That was a change that happened before the release of a book published in 2006, a lot can change since then. It's entirely possible that, after that, he decided to fit silver in in another way. And everything silver related we've seen in the cosmere has been since then (since basically all of the cosmere has been since then) 1
Treamayne Posted June 15, 2024 Posted June 15, 2024 1 hour ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said: I mean I do, but I don't think that really affects anything. That was a change that happened before the release of a book published in 2006, a lot can change since then. It's entirely possible that, after that, he decided to fit silver in in another way. And everything silver related we've seen in the cosmere has been since then (since basically all of the cosmere has been since then) A lot can change, I agree. There are no WoBs implying any other properties for Silver (but there is the unanswer question of teh Threnodite Chain) Even the Dagger you mention specifically says (in women's script) "the metal is not Raysium but a silver-nickel alloy and does not affect the dagger's function." True, but the plan for Silver predates everything except Elantris. Because it was created (approximately) during copy edit for TFE after having written Era 1 Draft 1. To be clear, I am not saying your theory is "False" - just that it is unlikely based on currently known information. Possible supporting WoBs: Spoiler Quote Questioner In Mistborn, silver doesn’t play a role. But then in Shadows for Silence, silver does play a role... Brandon Sanderson It does. I still wanted silver to be part of the Cosmere. Questioner But we’ll never see it in Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson It does not, as they understand currently, interact with Allomancy, with the three Metallurgic Arts. Silver does have a Cosmere role. Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017) Quote mraize7 u/mistborn I know you were writing the sequel to [Sixth of the Dusk]. Any progress on Threnody's novel? Brandon Sanderson Just some vague ideas here and there. Nothing too specific. Silver chain in Oathbringer is from Threnody, though. (They use them in Silverlight too.) I'll get a chance to explain what they are eventually. (I hope.) General Reddit 2019 (Aug. 22, 2019) Possible detracting WoBs: Spoiler Quote Argent Spores are said to eventually overwhelm a ship's silver defenses. Do aether spores ruin silver like the Shades over in Threnody do? Brandon Sanderson Yes. It'd take a lot, but yeah. Basically, this is how we have a ship that sinks not destroy the whole ocean. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Quote Argent Can silver help a spore eater with their condition? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it can stab them through the heart with a silver knife so they die. Much better ending. There is potentially an application of silver that could maybe help them, it would not be my first go to. Silver can be pretty destructive. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Quote Questioner Does silver break Connection or bonds? If silver does have this effect, does it get used in the creation of unkeyed metalminds? Brandon Sanderson These are good questions. Silver, as I have it right now, is not capable of that. What silver's doing is is disrupting. It's more like interference. You know how, in White Sand, people can have these columns of sand. If you swiped silver through that, they would fall; but then they would be able to do it again. It's this little nullification for a short time. It's very dangerous to things like shades, and stuff like that. It's more disruptive. If you hit a spren with this, it would be like hitting them with a Shardblade. They're gonna come back together. They're not dead; they're gonna reform eventually, and probably won't take too long. So it's not severing Connection; you're gonna need anti-Investiture to do really destructive stuff. But you can disrupt with some silver. It's specifically bad for Shades for reasons maybe I'll get into someday. Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023) Hope that helps 1
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