Possible Way to Heal Testament (spoilers)

[Elder]

Could Shallan heal Testament by drawing her?  Her art seems to be a magic all its own.

Basis for the idea: 

1. WoK I-8: Geranid: the titular character discovers that flame spren respond to how they’re perceived and defined, with recorded measurements actually controlling their size.

2. Yumi and the Nightmare Painter,

Spoiler

and what Nikaro can do with a paintbrush to Nightmares… and Yumi.

On a related note, I wonder if this isn’t a possible synergy in Truthwatcher Surges.  They could use Illumination/Lightweaving to help guide Progression/Regrowth, possibly to heal people who regrowth wouldn’t be able to help. If they can use Lightweaving to help overcome someone’s self perception of disability.

Edited June 5, 2024 by Elder

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Elder said:

Yumi spoilers:

Spoiler

2. Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and what Nikaro can do with a paintbrush to Nightmares… and Yumi.

This is SA forum, spoilers from other series and books should be hidden.

2 hours ago, Elder said:

Could Shallan heal Testament by drawing her?  Her art seems to be a magic all its own.

Basis for the idea: 

1. WoK I-8: Geranid: the titular character discovers that flame spren respond to how they’re perceived and defined, with recorded measurements actually controlling their size.

Spoiler

2. Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, and what Nikaro can do with a paintbrush to Nightmares… and Yumi.

 

I don't think drawing her is enough. Perception can do a lot, but Testament's soul is broken, something was ripped out of her and that needs to be fixed. Drawing her doesn't fix her soul, at most it can just affect her physical form, but not the soul as Testament's perception of herself is more important when it comes to healing. Shallan just needs to reswear her Oaths to heal Testament.

Spoiler

Questioner

The dead Shardblades, could you possibly get Stormlight into them to reawaken them?

Brandon Sanderson

Dead Shardblade, could you pump enough Stormlight into them? That alone would not be enough.

Questioner

So you would have to find someone to re-swear with oaths?

Brandon Sanderson

There is something broken on the Spiritual Realm because of the broken oath and simple Stormlight will not fix that.

Questioner

So say--

Brandon Sanderson

If the person were still alive and could re-swear the oath then yes.

Questioner

But someone like [...] could go [...] the Spiritual Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not outside of reason but it would be very, very, very difficult.

Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)

Shallan's drawings are magical because she's touching SR and Connections when she does that. 

Spoiler

Spun Lines

We’ve seen Shallan’s drawings appear to make people into “better versions of themselves.” But we also see her draw Yalb surviving the shipwreck, and later find out he did. Is she actually seeing the future in which she just happens to inspire people to be better? If so, this would make Wit’s warning to her in Oathbringer more concerning.

Brandon Sanderson

As will all sort of future sight/foretelling in the cosmere, it is not necessarily telling the future so much as seeing possibilities. And Shallan has… we’ll get into this in Book Five. Shallan’s a little extra good at this, for Spiritual mumbo jumbo. (It’s not necessarily just Spiritual mumbo jumbo, 17th Shard.) In this case, we have a very distinct reason why this is happening with Shallan that you might be able to put together. It’s pretty obvious. But you should be able to see these things with Shallan very early in the books. As early as Words of Radiance, I was sticking in little nods to this. She is able to grab glimpses of the Spiritual Realm in ways that even other Lightweavers can’t do. Lightweaving always has a bit of this, right? And this comes back to what’s going on with the Realmatic Theory and Plato’s Theory of the Forms as kind of a foundational text that helped me develop this in my mind. You’re seeing more perfect versions of who you could be. When she’s doing a sketch, she’s sometimes sketching not who you are, but who you could be.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

 

[Elder]

13 minutes ago, alder24 said:

This is SA forum, spoilers from other series and books should be hidden.

I don't think drawing her is enough. Perception can do a lot, but Testament's soul is broken, something was ripped out of her and that needs to be fixed. Drawing her doesn't fix her soul, at most it can just affect her physical form, but not the soul as Testament's perception of herself is more important when it comes to healing. Shallan just needs to reswear her Oaths to heal Testament.

  Hide contents

Questioner

The dead Shardblades, could you possibly get Stormlight into them to reawaken them?

Brandon Sanderson

Dead Shardblade, could you pump enough Stormlight into them? That alone would not be enough.

Questioner

So you would have to find someone to re-swear with oaths?

Brandon Sanderson

There is something broken on the Spiritual Realm because of the broken oath and simple Stormlight will not fix that.

Questioner

So say--

Brandon Sanderson

If the person were still alive and could re-swear the oath then yes.

Questioner

But someone like [...] could go [...] the Spiritual Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not outside of reason but it would be very, very, very difficult.

Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)

Shallan's drawings are magical because she's touching SR and Connections when she does that. 

  Hide contents

Spun Lines

We’ve seen Shallan’s drawings appear to make people into “better versions of themselves.” But we also see her draw Yalb surviving the shipwreck, and later find out he did. Is she actually seeing the future in which she just happens to inspire people to be better? If so, this would make Wit’s warning to her in Oathbringer more concerning.

Brandon Sanderson

As will all sort of future sight/foretelling in the cosmere, it is not necessarily telling the future so much as seeing possibilities. And Shallan has… we’ll get into this in Book Five. Shallan’s a little extra good at this, for Spiritual mumbo jumbo. (It’s not necessarily just Spiritual mumbo jumbo, 17th Shard.) In this case, we have a very distinct reason why this is happening with Shallan that you might be able to put together. It’s pretty obvious. But you should be able to see these things with Shallan very early in the books. As early as Words of Radiance, I was sticking in little nods to this. She is able to grab glimpses of the Spiritual Realm in ways that even other Lightweavers can’t do. Lightweaving always has a bit of this, right? And this comes back to what’s going on with the Realmatic Theory and Plato’s Theory of the Forms as kind of a foundational text that helped me develop this in my mind. You’re seeing more perfect versions of who you could be. When she’s doing a sketch, she’s sometimes sketching not who you are, but who you could be.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023)

 

Fixed.

I have reason to believe that reswearing oaths may not be enough.  Granted, the following spoilers are tentative, so salt to taste.  Or don’t read them. Up to you.

Spoiler

Quote

 

"Some breaks are messy," Pattern said. "A slice with a sharpened knife is clean. A slice with a dull one is ragged. Your break, done by a child without full intent, is like the one ragged. In some ways, that makes it worse. But it does mean there is still some Connection between you two."

"So..."

"So, no," Pattern said. "I do not think merely saying words again would heal her." His head pattern spun a little more slowly, as if he were contemplating something profound. "These numbers are unfamiliar, Shallan. Strange. Irrational. And a sequence I do not understand. I mean... I mean we are walking on unfamiliar ground. A better metaphor for you, yes. Unfamiliar ground."

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/535-c2e2-2024/#e16576

Though, if you read further in that, some of those things your quoted in take on some new significance as well.

 

 

Beyond tentative spoilers, I will also point out that Shallan’s Oaths as a Lightweavers are Truths.  Art being a form of expression, that could be a more powerful way of saying Truth.  

By no means do I I assume that it’s as simple as Shallan doing a quick sketch.  I imagine:

1. It would probably have to be her absolute finest work.

2. Significant amount of intent, maybe investiture, and Truth need to be in the mix. 
3.  Access to the spiritual realm

4.  Maybe freeing Ba Ado Mishram.

Just a theory though.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

Honestly...Drawing seems like the only natural way that Shallan could delve deep enough into her subconscious to be able to recall her oaths to be capable of reswearing them.

[Aoibheann she/her]

I like this idea - but I don't think it alone will be enough. 

During WoR, Shallan helped Pattern transition more fully into the physical realm by drawing: 

Quote

When she finished the last line, she found herself breathing hard, as if she'd run a great distance.  She blinked, again noticing the creationspren around her - there were hundreds. They lingered before fading away one by one. Shallan set the pen down beside her vial of ink, which she'd stuck to the tabletop with wax to keep it from sliding as the ship swayed.  She picked up the page, waiting for the last lines of kink to dry, and felt as if she'd accomplished something significant - though she knew not what.

As the last line dried, the pattern rose before her. She heard a distinct sigh from the paper, as if in relief.

She jumped, dropping the paper and scrambling onto her bed. Unlike the other times, the embossing didn't vanish though it left the paper - budding from her matching drawing - and moved onto the floor. 

WoR page 66 (emphasis not mine)

If this is true, I think Shallan will have to fully accept a memory of Testament and draw that.  it's also interesting to consider that this method won't work for others trying to revive deadeye spren.  

[Elder]

On 7/6/2024 at 11:25 AM, Aoibheann said:

I like this idea - but I don't think it alone will be enough. 

During WoR, Shallan helped Pattern transition more fully into the physical realm by drawing: 

If this is true, I think Shallan will have to fully accept a memory of Testament and draw that.  it's also interesting to consider that this method won't work for others trying to revive deadeye spren.  

This remedy would certainly be unique.  Of course, this entire situation is quite unique.

 

On 6/19/2024 at 8:00 PM, hwiles said:

Honestly...Drawing seems like the only natural way that Shallan could delve deep enough into her subconscious to be able to recall her oaths to be capable of reswearing them.

Indeed.  Worth noting: all of the Truths she’s told to advance with Pattern pertain to her life after Testament:

1. That she killed her father 

2. That she killed her mother with a living Shardblade *
 

*technically, she was still lying to herself somewhat with that one, as she was attributing to Pattern what was done with Testament… I wonder if that might not be a weakness to their bond.  It was spoken as a Truth, and it bears certain characteristics in Oathbringer.  Once she says it, she can’t hide it away any more.  Possibly it’s just her admitting that she killed her mother, and that Truth, hidden so long by her father, was enough.

but that’s enough of that rabbit hole.  My point in bringing all this up was that there were at least 2 juicy truths she told Testament as a child that are quite different from the ones she told Pattern.  Rediscovering those may be key. And her art may be how she does it.

[Dofurion]

Well, I think that with the information that the RPG has provided us, we may have more clarity regarding Shallan's case.

Spoiler

Though incredibly uncommon, it’s theoretically possible to bond multiple Radiant spren—either two of the same type, or even more uncommonly, of different types (allowing you to join multiple orders). While this game’s default rules only allow each character to join one Radiant path, you and your GM can make an exception if it fits the story. For each spren bond, you must speak and maintain new oaths as described below.

Same Type of Spren. If you’re bonding a second spren of the same type as your existing spren bond, you don’t need to choose your existing Ideal talents a second time, but you must once again speak the Ideals in a unique way under new circumstances, reflecting how you’ve changed since you swore the oaths a previous time. To do so, begin with the goal “Speak the First Ideal” and complete it like you did previously, progressing through the Second and later Ideals until you reach an Ideal you haven’t yet spoken. From that point on, any higher Ideals you swear can count toward all your spren bonds of that type—though each spren must accept the words.

You don’t gain additional powers from bonding with two or more spren of the same type, with one exception: once you complete the goal “Speak the Third Ideal,” you can summon two of your spren who accepted those Words, allowing you to dual-wield Radiant Shardblades, and you can summon both of them using a single Interact action.

Assuming this is so we have the following facts:

• First, Shallan made it to at least the 3rd oath with Testament.
• Second, all the oaths he has made so far have only affected Pattern.

In addition to this we have the WoB in which Sanderson explains how to revive a Deadeye:

Quote

Questioner

Shardblades are essentially spren that have died--

Brandon Sanderson

Not all of them have died but yeah.

Questioner

Oh, my question was if they could be revived?

Brandon Sanderson

Um this… According to the understanding of those in-world it would require the same person who broke their oath. So it would be possible if any of them were still alive. I'm not ruling out other ways, but that's how it's understood by--

Questioner

It would be the traditional way.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, mmhmm.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

Note: I think I just experienced a Mandela effect, I understood that not only was it necessary to say the oaths again to revive a Deadeye, but that the next one that was missing also had to be said before the breakup.The next part of the text assumes that this is indeed the case and I am not misremembering.

So this gives us 2 possibilities to revive Testament:

• The first would be that in her youth Shallan only swore up to the 4th ideal and at the time of pronouncing her 5th ideal Testament she is cured.
• And second, this being a rarer case, Shallan got to say 4 truths and there is nothing more to say. So it still wouldn't be enough since she already has the 5 ideals said. This opens up the possibility for her to take an alternative: Sja-Anat.

Taking these WoB's [1] [2] as an example, it would be a good desperate measure to restore her, although she may retain her memories but not her previous personality.