Twinborn effect for Wax?

[Twinning]

Spoilers for the Wax and Wayne era.

Just finished the second era and have been waiting since the end of the first book for the spoken of "effects" to come into play but haven't explicitly seen them.

Reading through all I can find on here, I have found:

1. Synergies are specifically NOT the "effect" being spoken of.

2. Savantaism is specifically NOT the effect.

2. Many hypotheses that Wax's bubble is the effect. However, this is simply "pushing out gently in all directions" which is only different in degree from Vin pushing strongly in all directions AFAICT. Also, his doppelgänger also creates a bubble despite having gained his abilities through hemalurgy,  and (I don't think) having the skimmer ferring ability that Wayne has.

I don't see anyone talking about his exclusion ability. His own metal is unaffected by the push and he has even excluded metals on a person with him (maybe even only near him IDR). It's a specific conscious action he takes and it isn't accounted for synergy or strength. Initially he holds his guns upward over his head (center of gravity) to exclude them but later, perhaps because of evolving savantism, he doesn't even need to do this.

IDK. It seems WoB has been vague on what is due to his savantism and what is due to the effect. 

What do other people think?

Also interested in what people think the effect for Wayne might be but that seems even more nebulous. I have hypothesized he has some way to have a bubble that stores his things. On occasion he just drops his props once used but always seems to have whatever he needs and a potentially ludicrous, impossible amount of things in his pockets.  

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

Just finished the second era and have been waiting since the end of the first book for the spoken of "effects" to come into play but haven't explicitly seen them.

This effect is called resonance. It's complicated, I'll talk more about it in a bit.

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

1. Synergies are specifically NOT the "effect" being spoken of.

Yup, that's just a cool thing Wax can do with conservation of momentum, not a resonance.

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

2. Savantaism is specifically NOT the effect.

That's true. It's worth mentioning that Wax was originally planned as a Savant, or near Savant of his powers, but Branond stepped back from this idea as there were no consequences of his Savanthood, nor was it related to the plot or his character arc.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.
Miscellaneous 2016 (Dec. 15, 2016)

The last part of this WoB is important here - Brandon isn't pleased how Wax's resonance turned out in the book and that's probably why it's complicated. 

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

2. Many hypotheses that Wax's bubble is the effect. However, this is simply "pushing out gently in all directions" which is only different in degree from Vin pushing strongly in all directions AFAICT. Also, his doppelgänger also creates a bubble despite having gained his abilities through hemalurgy,  and (I don't think) having the skimmer ferring ability that Wayne has.

And here is the problem why it's complicated - Wax's resonance was meant to be his steel bubble. But in BoM ch 7 we saw a regular Coinshot also using a steel bubble, so that can't be it. I think it goes back to the WoB above - Brandon wasn't happy about resonances in Era 2, so he made it just a normal ability. And that means we still don't know what Wax's resonance is. Wayne is even more problematic as Brandon never said what his one is.

Quote

The brute smiled. Doors still rattled around him—he was a Coinshot, obviously, Pushing out with a bubble like the one Wax used. It even pressed a little on the metalminds Wax wore on his upper arms, which were resistant to Allomancy

 

Spoiler

Argent

Have we seen the resonances of either Wax or Wayne?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, Wax is really good at sculpting bullets and things away from him.

Argent

The bubble.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah and things like this. This is playing with the fact that he is-- Let's just say that the abilities make this happen, and I’ll let you theorize on why, but it's just an enhancement to what he can do.

Argent

I might be wrong, but I thought you said it was because he was becoming a steel savant.

Brandon Sanderson

A savant, yeah, definitely, but this is what this is coming from.

Argent

But being a savant has to do with being really good with one power--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--and resonances--

Brandon Sanderson

Being a savant has to do with using Investiture a lot, and it's starting to permeate your soul. Like we've ta--

Argent

So he's more a savant with both of--

Brandon Sanderson

He's used them a lot, and they are changing his soul, and so the powers are morphing and changing. Just in slight, little ways. You're not gonna see a whole bunch. But you can imagine these two separate powers are kind of becoming one to him.

Argent

Yeah I can see that. And Wayne?

Brandon Sanderson

So Wayne's is not as obvious. I'll go ahead and RAFO that right now.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

Spoiler

timi1993

What's [Wayne's] effect from his Twinborn abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

I don't think I've released that yet.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

 

I don't remember Dumad using a steel bubble like Wax, he had duralumin and was pushing in all directions. Do you remember where he did that? I've tried to search for it but found nothing. Wax is more subtle and skilled with his bubble, he can exclude things from it, like his and Steris' personal items, it's a bit more advanced than just "push everything away." I don't think this alone is his resonance, it's just skill with the steel bubble Wax's learned, everyone should be able to do the same, it's just the matter of perspective and intent. If Dumad really did the steel bubble, then it can't be a resonance, as those aren't transferable via spikes and they also don't develop when your powers come from Hemalurgy, but also he didn't even have the power of F-iron. 

Spoiler

Questioner

As far as Hemalurgy, when you give that-- when it's done to somebody, would that create a new resonance?

Brandon Sanderson

It's possible that it could. Though I'm gonna say, most of the time, no... Lots of things are possible, but I'll give you a "mostly no" on that one.

Questioner

What about savantism? Is that possible with Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it is.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

There is one good news however, resonances will be explored more in Era 3, so it's a part of Cosmere that is still ahead of us. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The "perks" ("secondary effect born with interaction between powers") also has not a 100% sure name, but the main one at the moment is resonances....We will discovered a lot of the in the third trilogy where the Scientific Method would be applied to the magic.

Lucca Comics and Games Festival (Oct. 28, 2016)

 

2 hours ago, Twinning said:

Also interested in what people think the effect for Wayne might be but that seems even more nebulous. I have hypothesized he has some way to have a bubble that stores his things. On occasion he just drops his props once used but always seems to have whatever he needs and a potentially ludicrous, impossible amount of things in his pockets.  

No, that's definitely not something like this. It's not really possible. If I were to guess I would say he's just better at storing/tapping health faster or something like that. Many theorize that he had increased Fortune, that's why he's so lucky and it would make sense too.

[Ninth of the Night]

On 4/28/2024 at 1:59 PM, Twinning said:

Initially he holds his guns upward over his head (center of gravity) to exclude them but later, perhaps because of evolving savantism, he doesn't even need to do this.

Just a slight correction on this, the scene where he holds his guns above his head is because he's using a much stronger Push in a ring around him to clear the surrounding area of tables and debris. It's not the same as his bubble, which he used even before this part. In fact I think he uses it in the prologue.

Edited May 1 by Ninth of the Night