Metalmapper Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 Okay, so I have a hypothetical, and I want to see if people think it will work: You have an Inkspren who, for whatever reason, ends up in either Arelon or Silverlight. For some reason, they're trying to go to another planet that is neither Sel nor Roshar. While on their journey, they meet an Elantrian who is very close to the Ideal of Radiance. The two form a Nahel Bond. Now, you have an Elantrian Elsecaller traveling to a world with no Dor and no Stormlight. Once on that world (we'll say Scadrial for simplicity), they decide that giving up the immortality they would have had if they stayed in Elantris was a mistake, so they decide to get themself some Investiture. My theory is that Elantrians never run out of Dor because their source of Investiture is one Realm removed from them (in the Cognitive) not two (in the Spiritual) like on most worlds. This Elantrian Elsecaller go into Scadrial's Cognitive Realm to be closer to the Investiture of Harmony (it's not Devotion, but it's something) and experiment to find the Elendel Basin's Aon Aon. They then work from there to figure out Aon Rao. Knowing Elendel's Aon Rao, they build a structure on manifested pontoons in the Cognitive in the shape of Aon Rao, and then Soulcast (I'm assuming the Inkspren brought a Perfect Gemstone or two from Roshar to sustain themself) it into the Physical Realm and live in it. Would this bring enough unkeyed Investiture into the Physical Realm for an Elantrian to stop their own aging and/or draw functional Aons? If so, would they be able to power Surges with that Investiture? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 49 minutes ago, Metalmapper said: You have an Inkspren who, for whatever reason, ends up in either Arelon or Silverlight. Just to point out, a Spren leaving Roshar is a very hard thing to accomplish. They are bound to Roshar, just like Heralds are. 51 minutes ago, Metalmapper said: Once on that world (we'll say Scadrial for simplicity), they decide that giving up the immortality they would have had if they stayed in Elantris was a mistake, so they decide to get themself some Investiture. I'm not sure if they lose immortality without Dor. Sure they got weaker and fragile, Ire in SH had to drink Dor to sustain themselves, but I don't think this is confirmed that they will become mortal or age without Dor. They will stay Elantrians even far away from Elantris, but some visual characteristics of their Elantrianess will fade. Is immortality part of their "staying Elantrians," or "visual characteristics" - I don't know. But they do need Dor daily in some way to function. Spoiler Yourigath Can you access the Dor while on other planets? Can you, I don't know, "tell the Dor" that you are on Roshar using an Aon that doesn't have the base on the map of Sel but in the world of Roshar and use Elantrian magic there? An Aon with an spiral pattern with the right lines, dots, etc... that tells the Dor "I'm here. This is Roshar. And I need your power to do X" Brandon Sanderson Great question, and one integral to the workings of cosmere Magic! No, you cannot currently access the Dor anywhere else. The Dor is a big part of why magic on Sel is distinctive. Yourigath If an Elantrian worldhops does it returns to a normal human pre-Shaod state? If this Elantrian goes back to Sel it recovers his Elantrian powers or he keeps his pre-Shaod form? Brandon Sanderson An Elantrian away from Sel would still be an Elantrian--but many of the visible signs would fade away, much like something florescent that stops glowing when moved away from a Black Light. /r/books AMA 2015 (May 22, 2015) 43 minutes ago, Metalmapper said: My theory is that Elantrians never run out of Dor because their source of Investiture is one Realm removed from them (in the Cognitive) not two (in the Spiritual) like on most worlds. Technically speaking investiture in the Spiritual Realm is infinite, anyone who can tap into SR taps into an infinite source of investiture - like Allomancers who also never run out of investiture as long as they have metals to burn, or Heralds who were powered directly by Honor through SR. They didn't need Stormlight before they broke the Oathpact. This is also just a part of Selish magic. Their investiture comes directly from SR. Elantrians are more invested than Returned, they likely have a direct Connection to Dor that sustains them. They are more similar to Cognitive Shadows than to normal Invested users like Surgebinders or Alloamncers. Because they have this Connection to Dor, their strength fades the further away they are from Elantris. Elantrians existed before Splintering Aona and Skai and that's before Dor existed in CR. So the fact that they never run out of investiture isn't unique to them, this also happens in other magic systems, so this isn't because Dor is in CR. 47 minutes ago, Metalmapper said: This Elantrian Elsecaller go into Scadrial's Cognitive Realm to be closer to the Investiture of Harmony This doesn't matter. Being in CR doesn't make you any closer to Investiture. You are on Harmony's planet, his investiture is everywhere around you. The only place where you can be closer to Harmony's investiture is in a perpendicularity, where you can peer directly into the Spiritual Realm which is where investiture is. But to actually tap into Harmony's investiture, you need either a strong Connection to him. 56 minutes ago, Metalmapper said: Would this bring enough unkeyed Investiture into the Physical Realm for an Elantrian to stop their own aging and/or draw functional Aons? If so, would they be able to power Surges with that Investiture? Yes, once they figure out the correct Aons/the way to hack the system, they will be able to draw investiture for AonDor and be at full strength - as seen in TLM. Shay-I drew an Aon based on the Elendel Basin and she feared she will stay as Elantrian indefinitely - this means she isn't just feeding on the jar of Dor she consumed when transforming (this jar most likely fueled her transformation only), she is constantly Connected to a source of investiture that will power her almost forever. I think that's just Dor. She hacked the system to feed on Dor from that far away and we know there is another way to do it - by tapping Connection to Elantris an Elantrian would be able to use AonDor outside of Sel. So your Elantrian won't use Harmony's investiture, you don't need another source of investiture, they can tap directly into Dor like Shay-I did. This isn't unkeyed investiture, but it might be possible for that Elantrian to use that Dor to power their Surges as it's keyed to their identity, or something else might be needed to that Dor for it to fuel Surges (like fully unkeying it). We don't know. Mixing magic systems is generally hard in Cosmere and we don't know what needs to be done for this to work. If it's just the identity of the user, meaning as long as Dor is keyed to you, you can fuel other Invested Arts you have access to, then your Elantrian won't have much problems in fueling their Surgebinding with Dor. But if it's something else, maybe if it needs to be keyed to a specific Shard, fully unconnected, or some other things, then they need to do this before they would be able to use Surgebinding. We don't know. Spoiler Jofwu Why did Shay-I have to draw a map of the Elendel basin, if the jar of Dor was her source of Investiture? Did the map connect her to another source of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson No, the map didn't, but her magic is still wonky. Selish magic has some wonkiness to it and it needs to be tricked. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Spoiler Questioner (paraphrased) Is there a region-based magic like Elantris on any of the other worlds? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) The Aon magic is unique to that planet because it is intrinsic to the Shard that created it, but you could theoretically hack the magic system so that AonDor would work on another planet. Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014) Spoiler DoritoJH So, AonDor is super versatile and powerful. Brandon Sanderson Yes, but region-locked! DoritoJH Yes, it is region locked, exactly. If a full Feruchemist using nicrosil were to create an unlocked medallion that allowed an Elantrian to store Connection to Elantris' location, would it let them use AonDor at full power as long as they were tapping that Connection? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That should work just fine. ... Just understand that the medallion's going to have to be usable by everyone in order to work. You're going to have to jump through some hoops, but I think what you want there would work. And for those of you listening, that would be the harder way to unlock AonDor. There are easier methods. DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 31, 2019) Spoiler Questioner Would Vasher be able to use Stormlight in the same way that he can get Breath? Brandon Sanderson That would not be immediately easy, but Stormlight could feed Nightblood. Questioner Which is why Szeth can wield Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson Eh, you'll have to see if but yes. That could theoretically happen. You can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Spoiler Questioner You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of Investiture. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of Investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that? Brandon Sanderson Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones. DragonCon 2016 (Sept. 3, 2016) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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