Races in TWoK

[Windrunner he/him]

So I came across this fascinating piece of information in the interview database:

But personally, why do I include the races that I include? I'm just looking for interesting things that complement the story that I'm telling. The races in The Way of Kings come directly into the story and the mystery of what's happened before. If you pay close attention to what the races are, it tells you something about what's going to happen in the future and what's happened in the past. It's very conscious.

Source

So there's something we should be able to figure out here. Why are these races the way they are?

Here's a list of the various traits as far as I can remember.

• Alethi-black hair that breeds true in patches
  
• Iriali-golden (not blonde) hair that breeds true in patches
  
• Thaylen-long eyebrows
  
• Aimian-divided into two categories. Siah Aimians can change their appearance and functionality of organs as well as cast a shadow toward the light. Dysian Aiman have unknown abilities, possibly reassembling themselves if they are cut apart.
  
• Selay-blue veins clearly visible under skin
  
• Natanese-blue skin white wool-like hair
  
• Herdazi-crystalline slate colored fingernails
  
• Makabaki-tall dark hair smooth accent
  
• Shin-short of stature, large childlike eyes (I'm unsure if this counts as unusual or not)
  

Let me know if I'm forgetting something.

I do have one crack theory, but I'm not sure if its worth anything. I believe that possibly each one of these odd traits have been caused by Cultivation's magic. The people have been cultivated in some way each gaining a power according to race. I don't know how or why, possibly to help them survive on Roshar better. This would work out well because it would give Cultivation's magic ten subsets which fits with the 30 magic systems that Brandon has mentioned.

I also think that the Shin have discovered their racial magic. The farmers have access to it and that is why they are so holy. This is possibly because they Cultivate plants, but I don't believe you'd necessarily have to be a farmer to access Cultivation's magic. That would be way to limited.

So what does everyone think? What are these traits for, how do they hint at Roshar's past? Does anyone have any better ideas? I'm not super convinced in my Cultivation theory.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Windrunner
New traits

[Smidge]

Isn't the Alethi mythology that they were driven from the transquilline halls by the voidbringers? A potential explanation for the variety of species is that Roshar is a planet of immigrants from other worlds. Ooh, maybe Odium likes to drive people from different worlds together to force conflict... Not a lot of people would take kindly to a whole world's population just showing up in their lands hoping to live there, it would seem rather like an invasion.

The herdazian's have weird fingernails, but I get the impression that most of the different people from different places on Roshar have physical differences. I bet you could find a few more in the interludes, and maybe any of Sigzil's talking about places and Kaladin's stormriding thing. And you didn't include the parshmen in that list. Although it does seem like there are quite a few physical differences so maybe cultivation is playing a role in helping species adapt to the world.

[Joe ST he/him]

• Makabaki/Emuli/Azish: tall, dark hair, smooth accents
  
• Herdazian: crystalline, slate-colored fingernails
  

[kari-no-sugata]

I had noticed myself that the races were unusually diverse, and thought this was "suspicious" - based on normal genetics and the history of the world I'd expect just the opposite.

There's also the red haired people of the "horneaters" and places nearby... and a few more I think.

Cultivation does seem like a good bet for the cause, but I've got no idea how we could use this to predict future events.

[Inkthinker]

• Makabaki/Emuli/Azish: tall, dark hair, smooth accents
  
• Herdazian: crystalline, slate-colored fingernails
  

I'd call an accent a matter of socio/cultural factors, not genetic. I'm not sure if their stature or hair color really separates them from the Alethi. Though I suppose "dark" hair is not the same as "black" hair.

The Herdazian fingernails, on the other hand, sound like they're a legit genetic marker.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Inkthinker

[name_here]

All the hair colors are mixed-dominance, far as I can tell. In the real world you can see this with cats (especially female cats, because it's linked to the X-chromosome) but is not the case with human hair colors.

Now, what makes this interesting is that Baxil's Mistress (new crackpot theory: Shallash&Jezerin's daughter instead of Shallash herself, and has her mother's eyes) has Alethi-colored black hair but not at all the right skin color. If Roshar had more typical genetics, I'd put it down to genetic drift and intermarriage, but the way the genetics work would indicate that the hair color should be most heavily associated with people who look exactly like Shallash assuming she had, say, twenty children over the past four thousand years and each of them had a reasonable number of children and grandchildren. Long-term mutation could concievably explain it, but only over a long timeframe and assuming Shallash stopped having kids a long time ago.

[treblkickd he/him]

This is a really fascinating question, and a topic that came up in a long rambling post from earlier this year (old thread).

A few other distinctive features that are mentioned in the WoK are

Babatharnam: veins visible beneath the skin

Natanatan: blue skin and white wooly hair

Also, a few points from the older thread, and my own brain, that I might be worth reiterating here:

1 - What exactly does Shallan mean when she says that there are "eight kinds of blood"? It could be as simple as A/B/AB/O positive and negative, or it could refer to clear species distinctions (e.g. red human blood, orange parshendi blood, and six?! others).

2 - Distinct hair/skin/nail colorings are one thing, but the list of possible racial/regional features goes way beyond this in a few cases (namely the Siah Aimians polymorphing and casting shadows the wrong way!). It requires us to ask, which one of these is not like the other? One of these things just doesn't belong!

3 - From the information that we're given it doesn't appear as though the Heralds fall into any of the (very clearly distinguished) racial/ethnic groups on Roshar. So it appears as though whereever the Heralds originated from, it probably isn't the same place as the humans who populate Roshar.

[kari-no-sugata]

Now, what makes this interesting is that Baxil's Mistress (new crackpot theory: Shallash&Jezerin's daughter instead of Shallash herself, and has her mother's eyes) has Alethi-colored black hair but not at all the right skin color. If Roshar had more typical genetics, I'd put it down to genetic drift and intermarriage, but the way the genetics work would indicate that the hair color should be most heavily associated with people who look exactly like Shallash assuming she had, say, twenty children over the past four thousand years and each of them had a reasonable number of children and grandchildren. Long-term mutation could concievably explain it, but only over a long timeframe and assuming Shallash stopped having kids a long time ago.

Mmm, that's actually a very simple and straightforward theory... If we had proper descriptions of all the Heralds then it would be fairly easy to prove or disprove too.

[Elwynn]

In Dalinar's vision of the Recreance, he remarks that one of the Radiants has the 'skin ripples of the Selay.'

Which I'm guessing is old Sela Tales. Though he doesn't refer to anyone else there by the old Silver Kingdoms nationalities. Which is weird.

A brigde to completely Off-Topic stuff.

And as an aside...there is also land in old Makabakam, probably Azir or Emul, where the 'stone itself is ribbed and rippled, like frozen waves of water.'

Which is exactly the land Dalinar visits in his Midnight Essence vision...except the Radiant tells him it's Natanatan; but Dalinar doesn't remark on any strangeness of race or hair color and we know Natanatans have blue tinted skin and white hair.

[Dros]

A potential explanation for the variety of species is that Roshar is a planet of immigrants from other worlds. Ooh, maybe Odium likes to drive people from different worlds together to force conflict...

I like that theory. The people of Roshar live in relatively close proximity and are not separated by features that cannot be crossed---so why aren't the distinct features of the races more watered down? They are all located on one continent.

Maybe there's three Shards on Roshar because those Shards decided to try and stick together against Odium, who had destroyed their homeworlds or at least was threatening to destroy them. So they were forced to find security and shelter for their populations elsewhere--or something like that. (This is assumiong Odium wasn't one of the original three)

Or maybe Roshar is just a chosen battlefield. Shards show up, create a race and let 'em fight it out with their enemy Shard's population. But maybe it got out of hand...some Shard's got whacked and now the Shard's chosen populations are stranded.

[Ness]

Isn't the Alethi mythology that they were driven from the transquilline halls by the voidbringers? A potential explanation for the variety of species is that Roshar is a planet of immigrants from other worlds. Ooh, maybe Odium likes to drive people from different worlds together to force conflict... Not a lot of people would take kindly to a whole world's population just showing up in their lands hoping to live there, it would seem rather like an invasion.

I have to say I like this idea. Do you guys think it's possible these are what the Desolations were? The older Desolations being races that now have their own kingdoms, the one 4500 years ago being the Parshmen(same type as the current servants), and then Odium left some on their own world, where they developed into the Parshedi (spelling crappy, no book on hand), and now they are the current Desolation?

Even if this is not the full Desolation, it could be kinda of a precursor war that weakens humanity then the Thunderclasts and other shinnangins comes in later.

[Windrunner he/him]

2 - Distinct hair/skin/nail colorings are one thing, but the list of possible racial/regional features goes way beyond this in a few cases (namely the Siah Aimians polymorphing and casting shadows the wrong way!). It requires us to ask, which one of these is not like the other? One of these things just doesn't belong!

That's a tough call you're right. I'm not sure that the Makabaki and Shin traits count as odd. Also I'm thinking that Axies might not be the best representation of his whole race. He's got this weird curse of kind thing acting on him and he's immortal. Could he be a Herald? It sure is mysterious.

3 - From the information that we're given it doesn't appear as though the Heralds fall into any of the (very clearly distinguished) racial/ethnic groups on Roshar. So it appears as though whereever the Heralds originated from, it probably isn't the same place as the humans who populate Roshar.

I tend to disagree here. The Heralds could simply predate whatever caused the changes to the people of Roshar. Roshar's mythology seems to indicate that the Heralds were chosen from among its peoples so I think its the people who have changed, not the Heralds.

Now, what makes this interesting is that Baxil's Mistress (new crackpot theory: Shallash&Jezerin's daughter instead of Shallash herself, and has her mother's eyes) has Alethi-colored black hair but not at all the right skin color. If Roshar had more typical genetics, I'd put it down to genetic drift and intermarriage, but the way the genetics work would indicate that the hair color should be most heavily associated with people who look exactly like Shallash assuming she had, say, twenty children over the past four thousand years and each of them had a reasonable number of children and grandchildren. Long-term mutation could concievably explain it, but only over a long timeframe and assuming Shallash stopped having kids a long time ago.

I think it just makes more sense if its Shallash herself. We know for sure that Shallash was in the Way of Kings somewhere and it just makes the most sense to me if it were her. If these were her descendants it would be pretty unlikely that they would have her eye color let alone that their hair would become completely Alethi. It's an interesting idea but I hope you don't mind that I disagree.

A brigde to completely Off-Topic stuff.

And as an aside...there is also land in old Makabakam, probably Azir or Emul, where the 'stone itself is ribbed and rippled, like frozen waves of water.'

I think this is actually the city of Sesemalex Dar. Its located in the land of Emul and has the stone around the city cut into particular ribbed shapes which shield the city from the Highstorms.

Which is exactly the land Dalinar visits in his Midnight Essence vision...except the Radiant tells him it's Natanatan; but Dalinar doesn't remark on any strangeness of race or hair color and we know Natanatans have blue tinted skin and white hair.

Now that you mention it, this is really strange. There are a couple of possibilites for why this is, other then author error, which seems unlikely to me considering infrequency of errors in the past. One is that Dalinar doesn't find these people odd, so he doesn't remark on it at all. However if he saw that all the people were Natanese then he probably could have figured out for himself that he was in Natanatan. Another one is that for some reason there is a population of Alethi living there which is also kind of strange. The last idea I have is that during the time of this vision, the racial changes have not yet occurred leaving the people appearing more traditionally human. Do they mention Nohadon in this vision? If not then there's probably not much of an indication of when it occurred so it could have been millenia.

[hoser he/him]

If you're making a list, the parshmen and parshendi could be on it.

I have an unsupported theory that the parshendi are native, with the armor being a highstorm adaptation. In addition to the armor and skin, they have the chanting in time (is it to the same beat as the stormlight?) and the coordination indicating some form of communication (it seems too far-fetched to think that they have small gemhearts themselves, but I wonder).

As far as why is concerned, when Shallan talks to the bookseller, there is a reference to the five Vorin races (although Shallan only knows four of them). Presumably the Vorin races share the history of being expelled from the Tranquilline Halls. Other races might not have that history.

If the Heralds were chosen before the expulsion from the Tranquilline halls, that might explain their not fitting the Rosharian racial norms.

[callumke he/him]

Heredity works differently on Roshar than on Earth, at least for humans. This much is well established. What I was thinking about the different races was that are their existence caused by the way heredity works on Roshar? Or are both caused by a third thing?

Also I have thought about eye colour in regards to heredity. Are there eyes that are hard to classify as light or dark? Or does there exist a sharp boundary that separates light eyes from dark? And would this apply all over Roshar? Just a side thought I suppose.

[Elwynn]

I think this is actually the city of Sesemalex Dar. Its located in the land of Emul and has the stone around the city cut into particular ribbed shapes which shield the city from the Highstorms.

Nah, Sesemalex Dar is the place with the giant claw marks, the gouges in the ground. Kaladin passes over this and then remarks on the land of 'frozen waves.' I only said probably Azir or Emul because they're dark skinned like Sigzil. pg. 647 and 768 (hardback) spells it out.

Seems like a wildly unique landscape, coupled with Midnight Essence vision; it drives me nuts!

Now that you mention it, this is really strange. There are a couple of possibilites for why this is, other then author error, which seems unlikely to me considering infrequency of errors in the past. One is that Dalinar doesn't find these people odd, so he doesn't remark on it at all. However if he saw that all the people were Natanese then he probably could have figured out for himself that he was in Natanatan. Another one is that for some reason there is a population of Alethi living there which is also kind of strange. The last idea I have is that during the time of this vision, the racial changes have not yet occurred leaving the people appearing more traditionally human. Do they mention Nohadon in this vision? If not then there's probably not much of an indication of when it occurred so it could have been millenia.

Of course we know when it occured, 8th epoch-337.

I know what you mean...I find the first suggestion pretty hard to swallow. Just because he obviously didn't know he was in Natanatan.

But Alethi like races inhabiting the place at the time, before any change in skin/hair color, is probably the best possibility...simply because of how obviously long ago it was.

Unfortunately, no Nohadon name drops. I'm thoroughly obssesed with that man, wish there were more mentions of him.

I'm having a hard time getting past the rippled land of frozen waves thing...so unique a description for stone to take. Can't find a connection for why Natanatan would share that same landscape. And Sela Tales ('skin ripples of the Selay'), just seems like it should share the land formation with the people...instead it's ancient Makabakam! Sanderson confuses the hell out of me, which is...of course...why I love him so much.

[Aeshdan he/him]

As far as why is concerned, when Shallan talks to the bookseller, there is a reference to the five Vorin races (although Shallan only knows four of them). Presumably the Vorin races share the history of being expelled from the Tranquilline Halls. Other races might not have that history.

Five Kingdoms, not five races.

Besides, Veden and Kharbanthian have no discernible alterations.

[TiCaudata]

Alright.  I read this thread last week, but didn't really have anything to add.  However, today as I'm listening to The Way of Kings, something popped out at me that is related to magic and the races.  In the beginning of Part 3,  Adolin goes and talks to the ardents making a wind break, and he notes that the ardents that have used the soulcasters more often start to take on the appearance of the material they soulcast.  Could this be a hint to the races?  Could the fingernails of the Herdazians indicate that they are descended from people who could soulcast stone?

 

This is pretty far out there, but it seemed like it might be a clue.  I also haven't studied the surges enough to know where soulcasting and surgebinding overlap, but wanted to throw this into the grist mill.

Edited November 25, 2014 by TiCaudata

[Dhavaer]

This is pretty far out there, but it seemed like it might be a clue.  I also haven't studied the surges enough to know where soulcasting and surgebinding overlap, but wanted to throw this into the grist mill.

 

Surgebinding is pretty much binary, either you can do it or you can't. You can be better that some materials and worse at others - Jasnah is amazing with smoke and fire but awful are organics - but you can't have the ability to casting just one. If anything stony fingernails would indicate descent from the stonewardens, who didn't soulcast.