Theory: A Ruinous Soul

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Something I've been wondering about for a good long while now: If a greater amount of Presveration's Investiture in a Scadrian's soul is what gives Allomancy, what would happen if they had more Ruin instead?

It wouldn't result in Allomancy, but Ruin's most associated Magic System, Hemalurgy, isn't genetic. Or is it?

Hemalurgy has changed since Era 1, Harmony's preference for Preservation along with Ruin no longer constantly pushing on the fabric of Scadrial, a world he had a direct hand in creating mind you, has led to Hemalurgy becoming more restricted. A normal Scadrian's soul can now only handle a certain number of Hemalurgic Spikes before they simply stop gaining anything from it. With the limit likely being below 11, so no more Steel Inquisitors, but as shown in TLM is a minimum of 5, probably a few more.

I think the way around that limit might well be to tip the balance of a Scadrians soul the other way, making them have more of Ruin's Investiture could allow their soul to accept more Spikes, perhaps matching Marsh's whopping 20+ Spikes. Though I doubt this would get around the Identity Contamination that prevents Compounding.

I think this works, more Preservation heightens a person's Allomancy while more Ruin heightens their attunement to Hemalurgy.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Something I've been wondering about for a good long while now: If a greater amount of Presveration's Investiture in a Scadrian's soul is what gives Allomancy, what would happen if they had more Ruin instead?

It wouldn't result in Allomancy, but Ruin's most associated Magic System, Hemalurgy, isn't genetic. Or is it?

Hemalurgy has changed since Era 1, Harmony's preference for Preservation along with Ruin no longer constantly pushing on the fabric of Scadrial, a world he had a direct hand in creating mind you, has led to Hemalurgy becoming more restricted. A normal Scadrian's soul can now only handle a certain number of Hemalurgic Spikes before they simply stop gaining anything from it. With the limit likely being below 11, so no more Steel Inquisitors, but as shown in TLM is a minimum of 5, probably a few more.

I think the way around that limit might well be to tip the balance of a Scadrians soul the other way, making them have more of Ruin's Investiture could allow their soul to accept more Spikes, perhaps matching Marsh's whopping 20+ Spikes. Though I doubt this would get around the Identity Contamination that prevents Compounding.

I think this works, more Preservation heightens a person's Allomancy while more Ruin heightens their attunement to Hemalurgy.

I've wondered about the same thing before, especially since Lerasium can be used to Connect and Invest to Shards other than Preservation through alloys.

I'd say having more Ruin may very likely do as you propose. 

Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

It's also possible that having enough of Ruin's raw Investiture would lead to a Heightening-like effect instead of it programming to be like Allomancy. 

This would fit the system well too, as it would let you learn and utilize Hemalurgy more effectively. 

I've also wondered, do Koloss-blooded have extra Ruin? They're descendants of Koloss after all.

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

If a greater amount of Presveration's Investiture in a Scadrian's soul is what gives Allomancy,

Keep in mind that Allomancy is a by-product of the extra bit of Preservation. When Preservation added a bit "extra" to make humans on Scadrial it was so that they would Sapiance (HoA Ch 54 Epigraph* note - Sazed says "sentient" right before "awareness and independent thought" so he meant Sapient):

Spoiler

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Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity is the ability to contemplate and act productively using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight.^[1]

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Sentience is the simplest or most primitive form of cognition, consisting of a conscious awareness of stimuli without association or interpretation.^[1] 

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Preservation's desire to create sentient life was what eventually broke the stalemate. In order to give mankind awareness and independent thought, Preservation knew that he would have to give up part of himself—his own soul—to dwell within mankind. This would leave him just a tiny bit weaker than his opposite, Ruin.

That tiny bit seemed inconsequential, compared with their total vast sums of power. However, over aeons, this tiny flaw would allow Ruin to overcome Preservation, thereby bringing an end to the world.

This, then, was their bargain. Preservation got mankind, the only creations that had more Preservation than Ruin in them, rather than a balance. Independent life that could think and feel. In exchange, Ruin was given a promise—and proof—that he could bring an end to all they had created together. It was the pact.

 

Which is likely why creatures like Era 1 Koloss, who do have more Ruin than Preservation due to hemalurgy, lose Sapience and fall back to Sentience - acting and reacting based on emotion rather than reasoned thought (and Sapience starts returning - like Human - when they start reusing the spikes and their hemalurgic charge has been depleted)

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Keep in mind that Allomancy is a by-product of the extra bit of Preservation. When Preservation added a bit "extra" to make humans on Scadrial it was so that they would Sapiance (HoA Ch 54 Epigraph* note - Sazed says "sentient" right before "awareness and independent thought" so he meant Sapient):

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Which is likely why creatures like Era 1 Koloss, who do have more Ruin than Preservation due to hemalurgy, lose Sapience and fall back to Sentience - acting and reacting based on emotion rather than reasoned thought (and Sapience starts returning - like Human - when they start reusing the spikes and their hemalurgic charge has been depleted)

Ah, but you see. We've seen that the extra piece of Preservation isn't necessarily the thing that keeps Scadrians sapient. We've seen what people are like with that same piece excised from their very souls with Hemalurgy in TLM, so maybe it was necessary in the creation of Scadrians to make them Sapient, but not anymore.

7 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I've wondered about the same thing before, especially since Lerasium can be used to Connect and Invest to Shards other than Preservation through alloys.

I'd say having more Ruin may very likely do as you propose. 

I've been thinking that a Lerasium/Atium Alloy would have different effects depending on how much of either one there is in it. More Lerasium might make you an Atium-Misting, more Atium might Connect you to Ruin, while an equal amount might make you a Feruchemist. Just a theory though.

7 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I've also wondered, do Koloss-blooded have extra Ruin? They're descendants of Koloss after all.

I don't think so, the amount of Investiture used in Hemalurgy is only used in the creation and implantation of the Spikes, after all if you steal Allomancy the power in the spike would still contain Preservation's Investiture instead of being turned into Ruin's.

[Trusk'our he/him]

18 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

 

Which is likely why creatures like Era 1 Koloss, who do have more Ruin than Preservation due to hemalurgy, lose Sapience and fall back to Sentience - acting and reacting based on emotion rather than reasoned thought (and Sapience starts returning - like Human - when they start reusing the spikes and their hemalurgic charge has been depleted)

What about Steel Inquisitors? They have significantly more of Ruin's Investiture than Koloss, yet they retain sapience. 

1 minute ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I've been thinking that a Lerasium/Atium Alloy would have different effects depending on how much of either one there is in it. More Lerasium might make you an Atium-Misting, more Atium might Connect you to Ruin, while an equal amount might make you a Feruchemist. Just a theory though.

Probably true. After all, there is a way to use Atium and Lerasium to become a Feruchemist, and my guess would be that getting a 50/50 alloy and Burning it would do the trick.

Spoiler

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020) 

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

However, alloying them to have more Atium should, I believe, only Connect you to Ruin, which would probably have a different effect from producing Allomancy or Feruchemy. 

7 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I don't think so, the amount of Investiture used in Hemalurgy is only used in the creation and implantation of the Spikes, after all if you steal Allomancy the power in the spike would still contain Preservation's Investiture instead of being turned into Ruin's.

I don't know, I think it's possible that Hemalurgy converts the Investiture it steals into Ruin's Investiture. 

Cosmere spoilers:

Spoiler

We see that Nightblood, which based on its color and Command seem to follow Ruin's Intent, converts other Investiture to its own Intent. 

What's more, the Father machine seems to do something similar with the souls of the people it consumed to fuel it, changing the color of their Investiture to Ruin's black.

As such, I think Ruin's Investiture is unique in this way; is can "corrupt" without "corrupting" like other Investitures do and instead fully convert other Investiture to its own Intent. That would certainly fit the theme of Ruin after all; it's entropy, slowly causing everything else to decay and become balanced as one unanimous thing.

 

[Treamayne]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:16 PM, Trusk'our said:

What about Steel Inquisitors? They have significantly more of Ruin's Investiture than Koloss, yet they retain sapience.

But, do they really have that much more? They are transferring Allomancy and Feruchemy (so it is a Hemalurgic Charge with a big honking chunk of Preservation on the end representing that power in the spiritweb) - but we do see that while they mostly retain Sapience, they also devolve into mere Sentience in certain situations (such as Marsh's messy "birth" and all the other seen examples of "blood lust"). It's not just Violence that devolves them, any extreme emotions make them uncontrolled (by themselves or others). So, to me at least, they are more "on-the-line" than firmly Sapient.

Koloss (and likely Chimerae from SoS) are geting Hemalurgic charges without that chunk of Power so the effect appears to be more pronounced. 

Edited April 9 by Treamayne
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