Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 According to chapter 7, the doors to the Palaneum are "some kind of chart" made of "circles and lines and glyphs." ... 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 ...Built by order of who may be the most magic-aware individual on Roshar. I can't speak for the rest of us, but my mind is thoroughly blown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadrok she/her Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Awesome! ...Built by order of who may be the most magic-aware individual on Roshar. Built by whose order? I must have missed that detail. I tried looking up Palaneum on the Coppermind, but to no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I suspect he means Taravangian. The doors could have been installed by him, but they could also have been made far earlier. It's been said that the chamber was carved by the Dawnsingers themselves, that it extends back to the shadowdays. This could be an artifact from the actual Radiants themselves. ...Or it's just as likely to be a renovation that Taravangian commissioned. Maybe something in the Diagram told him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Maybe something in the Diagram told him to. You know, I would love it if the Diagram is full of just random advice like that, especially if the advice is completely superfluous to the actual task of defeating the voidbringers and Taravangian follows it anyway. Advice like, "Remember to floss after every meal", or something. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 You know, I would love it if the Diagram is full of just random advice like that, especially if the advice is completely superfluous to the actual task of defeating the voidbringers and Taravangian follows it anyway. Advice like, "Remember to floss after every meal", or something. "Sir, why are we changing the curtains?... Again?" "Because, my genious, insane and probably sociopathic super self scribbled it on the old ones, he probably wanted to raise moral with nice decorations." 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 If it is the Surgebinding chart, do you think it includes the faces of the Heralds around the edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 If it is the Surgebinding chart, do you think it includes the faces of the Heralds around the edge? Probably--I don't see why not. Correct me if I'm tragically, horribly wrong, but hasn't it been confirmed that Paliah is working at the Palaneum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I thought she was the woman everyone suspects to be working in Taravangian's hospital? Or is that Vedel? I dunno, I'm terrible at the "spot the Herald" game. Another thought... people often call the other chart the Voidbinding chart. I asked the artist once why the woman's safehand was covered, and he said it was probably designed for or by people who subscribe to those precepts of Vorinism. If so, that's presumably relatively new, since until the Recreance women could be Radiants as easily as men. Do we think it may have been designed well after the Surgebinding chart, with the border added in? Maybe it was made concurrently, in which case the Palaneum doors are newer than the shadowdays. Since we know from Jasnah that even the books in the Palaneum were subjected to Hierocratic review, how old is the actual library? I know we suspect that the physical chamber itself was there first (and what exactly was its purpose?) but did the library exist, and then the Hierocracy went through and adjusted it? Or did the hierocracy happen first, and books were thereafter collected and the Palanaeum was formed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Interesting questions! Great catch on the description of the doors btw, upvote for you! Maybe the Palanaeum was a sort of emergency shelter designed by the Heralds/Honor kind of like TLR's "caches" around Scadrial. Now it has been re-purposed into a library. It takes Shallan a half hour of walking down the corridor into a mountain to reach the Palanaeum in the first place. No evidence, but my guess is the chamber and doors are pre-Recreance and the library is post-Recreance but pre-Hierocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 The building is an interesting shape, if I recall. Inverted pyramid, yes? Like a stadium, almost? Yet with side rooms for books, unless I am mistaken. I'm trying to brainstorm to what purpose it could have originally been made, but I'm at a loss. Do we know of any lore from the shadowdays, of a place people are looking for but don't know the location of, which might turn out to be the Palanaeum? Maybe the Dawnsingers (said to be the ones who made the chamber) are just the Heralds. Also, just now noticed, Dawnsingers, Worldsingers. A connection, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I definitely agree that this sounds like the Surgebinding chart. I did a double-take when I first read that part. I personally doubt that the Heralds are around the border of the doors, not because it's implausible in and of itself, but because it was Shallan describing the door, and I feel like she would have noticed the Heralds and commented on them. The lack of any such commentary suggests that they aren't there, at least to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Hrm... not a bad notion, however it is also specifically said that she only just notices the door when it opens and she is rushed through, so there's wiggle room for her not picking up on the outside edges. Also, since presumably even if this doesn't have the Heralds, there must be metal art of the Heralds somewhere, how does whoever is disfiguring Shallash's images deal with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn he/him Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hrm... not a bad notion, however it is also specifically said that she only just notices the door when it opens and she is rushed through, so there's wiggle room for her not picking up on the outside edges. Also, since presumably even if this doesn't have the Heralds, there must be metal art of the Heralds somewhere, how does whoever is disfiguring Shallash's images deal with that? Well, metal is hard to chip or break, but it's not impossible. I'd guess with a good hammer or saw you could disfigure Shallash adequately. You know, I would love it if the Diagram is full of just random advice like that, especially if the advice is completely superfluous to the actual task of defeating the voidbringers and Taravangian follows it anyway. Advice like, "Remember to floss after every meal", or something. "Invest more in contemporary art" "Drink three to four jugs of grapefruit juice a day" "Adopt house colours of orange and dark caramel" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Wow! That is amazing. And completely makes sense too. Mind blown. You know, I would love it if the Diagram is full of just random advice like that, especially if the advice is completely superfluous to the actual task of defeating the voidbringers and Taravangian follows it anyway. Advice like, "Remember to floss after every meal", or something. "Always look both ways when crossing a chasm." "Remember to always wear clean underwear." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lol_king he/him Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 “Though I was due for dinner in Veden City that night, I insisted upon visiting Kholinar to speak with Tivbet. The tariffs through Urithiru were growing quite unreasonable. By then, the so-called Radiants had already begun to show their true nature.” —Following the firing of the original Palanaeum, only one page of Terxim’s autobiography remained, and this is the only line of any use to me. From chapter 46 child of tanavast, WoK So the original Palanaeum (the books in it at least) probably burned down during the heirocracy, and was rebuilt 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Excellent catch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 The surgebinding charts inside the covers of TWoK are copies of in-world art from somewhere, iirc. Do we know where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Is this a kind of trick question, Maximus? ;-) The obvious answer being "Doors of the Palaneum",or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Is this a kind of trick question, Maximus? ;-) The obvious answer being "Doors of the Palaneum",or? I don't think it's a trick question at all. Although I am on board with the Palaneum depicting the same design, i.e. the surgebinding/knights radiant chart, (the description pretty much seals it for me) I would disagree with the idea that the endsheet diagram *is* the Palaneum doors. Namely because it doesn't look like a set of doors. During the Nohadon vision Dalinar starts to describe the ceiling thusly: "The ceiling was far above, carved from rock in geometric patterns that looked faintly familiar. Circles connected by lines, spreading out from one another..." and then he gets cut off by Nohadon talking. It's possible he would have mentioned glyphs if he had continued the description. I don't think that that is the endpaper either though, just another depiction of the same thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hrm... this leads me to another thought. If Nohadon's ceiling is the same chart, it cannot be the Knights Radiant chart. Because Nohadon hadn't yet written the book upon which the Radiants were founded. It must refer more to just the Heralds than the Radiants themselves. ... which I guess has to be commonly recognized, since we don't call it the Radiant chart, we call it the Surgebinding chart. This is just the first time I, personally, realized that it prolly cannot refer to the Radiants. Which leads me to another thought. Is it possible that this means the Voidbindin chart is specifcally about ten individuals? The Unmade, or the Fools, perhaps? It also makes me wonder why the Larkin are so associated with the Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) There aren't ten Unmade, so I don't think that would work. The "Voidbinding" chart just has Cultivation(?) on the edges, along with the flames that living beings are seen as in Shadesmar. It does have a nice big red gem in the middle, which makes me think of Odium. The charts are quite interesting mysteries. Edited October 20, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 How do we know there aren't ten Unmade? And why do you think the woman on the edges is Cultivation? And how do we know exactly what the flames represent? And why is a gem Odium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left he/him Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 There's a WoB that there's only 6 unmade. Not sure how we know that she's cultivation. Flames makes sense but I'm not sure how we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Actually the WoB is that there is a fixed number of Unmade, and that that number is not ten. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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