Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 I thought there was a question about this already (actually I think it was about how skilled awakeners would partition their breaths so as not to use it all in one go, and keep a backup supply), and Brandon said something like 'they could store it in objects about them, use whatever was still in them, and then recover what they set aside.' I always assumed that Vasher was just storing his divine breath somewhere for when he needed it, and took in other breaths when he started feeling weak. Also, that would be very helpful for when he was wielding Nightblood, as a backup in case he left Nightblood out too long. I don't think so, based off of the annotations. I'm sure Weiry is about to give a better answer though.
Darkness he/him Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Nope, you're totally right. He doesn't just put it outside of himself. I didn't know about the annotations, but they are pretty awesome! I wonder how he suppresses it.
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Nope, you're totally right. He doesn't just put it outside of himself. I didn't know about the annotations, but they are pretty awesome! I wonder how he suppresses it.It has to do with the Cognitive Identity. Kaladin views his brands as part of himself now, thus they don't heal when he draws in Stormlight. Vasher chooses to view himself as not Divine, thus his Cognitive Identity changes. It takes "mental gymnastics" to do so.
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Nope, you're totally right. He doesn't just put it outside of himself. I didn't know about the annotations, but they are pretty awesome! I wonder how he suppresses it. What annotations and where can I find them? I hope the answer is different than "the book", because I just have an ebook version (cheaper than normal book), and I have no annotations there. ; ( EDIT: Found them! Edited January 22, 2015 by Pestis the Spider
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) What annotations and where can I find them? I hope the answer is different than "the book", because I just have an ebook version (cheaper than normal book), and I have no annotations there. ; ( EDIT: Found them! Just to help you out: Here is a WoB on the subject. And here is a link to the appropriate Warbreaker Annotations Chapter. Edited January 22, 2015 by inexorablePanda
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks. And sorry, but I have yet another question (loads and loads of questions from me): Can Returned have children or not? Because it was stated on multiple occasions that they can't but then there are the Royal Locks in royal family, and Vasher (I think it was him) says that it is because of being descendant of a Returned. So how is it?
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 From the Warbreaker Annotations Chapter 55: Treledees lies to her here about two things. First off, he does know how a God King can have a child, but he knows that the secret is also held by a secure group of priests on the islands. He doesn’t think letting Siri in on that one for now is a good idea. But he does want to pass on how to get Susebron’s Breaths away from him, should it become necessary. He knows that those need to be passed on, even if the God King does have a child. That’s the greater secret, but the one that needs to be known to Siri. Those Breaths cannot die with Susebron. So, anyway, he’s lying about the God King not being able to have a child. (Or at least he sidesteps it. He says that the God King can’t sire a child, which is true unless certain steps are taken. He also says that he doesn’t know how the First Returned bore a child, which is true—he doesn’t know for certain if the First Returned used the same method that Treledees knows. He’s also sidestepping the fact that he does believe that the blood of the First Returned flows in the veins of the royal Idrian line.)
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thanks a lot. But I actually don't like that you have to read the annotations to know that. It should be all explained in the book, because otherwise the book is super-confusing.
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Thanks a lot. But I actually don't like that you have to read the annotations to know that. It should be all explained in the book, because otherwise the book is super-confusing. I would disagree. This stuff isn't /necessary/ for the plot of the book. Is it stuff that is interesting to know, yes. But I'd rather it be revealed outside of the book than shoehorned in somewhere. The annotations are where Brandon can talk about the extra stuff. And some of this probably /will/ be explained in Nightblood.
entropicscholar he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Questions about Warbreaker: If Returned's Breath (I mean the single powerful one) grants them the Fifth Heightening, why is it noted at teh begining of the book, that Vasher only gets the Perfect Pitch after receiving Breath from Vahr? Do you need to turn this Breath "on", somehow, for it to work, or something? And if Vivenna is able to notice that "gods" have single powerful Breath, why doesn't she notice the same thing about Vasher and Denth? Is it because Vasher had more than this single Breath? If yes, then there is still the Denth problem, because I don't remember her noticing that he has anything more than a single normal human Breath. (But maybe I just missed it.) I was always under the impression that Denth was the child of a Returned. do these annotations you mention contradict that? (I may have missed statement that all 5 scholars were returned. if there is such a statement, what chapter might i find it in?) Edited January 23, 2015 by entropicscholar
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 I was always under the impression that Denth was the child of a Returned. do these annotations you mention contradict that? Denth was one of the Five Scholars, so he was Returned in his own right. Though he does possess the Royal Locks, which would indicate he's descended from Vo...
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Going back to Pestis's question, there's also this, from Chapter Forty-Four of the Annotations. It is possible for a Returned to have a child. Vo, the First Returned, did it. The God King isn’t special in that he can do it; any of the Returned could, but it requires some special knowledge that—I’m afraid—I’ll have to keep secret until the sequel. Suffice it to say that the priests know how it is done. The problem is, they aren’t always able to get this to work. Sometimes, they have to do what Siri guessed—replace the God King with an infant Returned. Infant Returns happen very infrequently. It’s more rare than an adult Returning, so there is something sound to the Hallandren reasoning that you have to do something heroic in order to Return. (That’s not true, but it is more sound a doctrine than Siri thinks it is.) The God King’s priests take an infant Returning as a sign that it’s time to change God Kings. At that point, they choose a wife for the God King and hope that she’ll be able to conceive the next God King. They’d much, much rather that the God King be the literal child of the previous God King. (Susebron wasn’t, however. And his mother was indeed his mother, a poor merchant’s wife from far northern Hallandren.) Now, an infant has indeed Returned. The priests see this as a major vindication of their faith, as they made the wedding contract with Idris twenty years ago and now, just when the marriage was to happen, an infant Returned. The problem is, now they’ve got to push Siri to get pregnant, because they’re on a deadline. They don’t want to have to replace the God King with this infant; they’d rather use his own child. Hence the push for her to have a child. But if she doesn’t, they’ll go with plan B. Note that there’s not, in fact, any danger to her either way, no matter what Bluefingers says. She and Susebron, following the change in power, would have been taken to one of the isles in the middle of the Inner Sea and kept in a lavish lifestyle as long as they lived.
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I would disagree. This stuff isn't /necessary/ for the plot of the book. Is it stuff that is interesting to know, yes. But I'd rather it be revealed outside of the book than shoehorned in somewhere. The annotations are where Brandon can talk about the extra stuff. And some of this probably /will/ be explained in Nightblood. I'm not saying that this stuff is really necessary, just that it is really confusing, and I really don't like to be so confused. And I'm not suggesting shoehorning all the possible information there. All I would want is some extra dialogue saying "Priests are wrong/lying, but it's complicated." Detailed desciptions of "how" are not necessary. That's all there is. Actually, in my opinion, it would be slos prefectly fine to leave out Vasher's comment that the Royal Locks are descent from a Returned, and just let the reader think that it is absolutely impossible for the Returned to have children, and if it is to be explained in Nightblood, then just explain all there in one go. Denth was one of the Five Scholars, so he was Returned in his own right. Though he does possess the Royal Locks, which would indicate he's descended from Vo... He has Royal Locks? I thought that he can change appearance because he is Returned. Well, I know that Returned generally look like they think they should look like, but I'm pretty sure they can learn to control it, just like Vivenna and Siri had to learn to control Royal Locks... Edited January 23, 2015 by Pestis the Spider
Sdg10 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Kind of a random question: In alloy of law, Wayne can create time bubbles where time slows down outside the bubble. ( I think that's how it works...it's been a while). Could you nest time bubbles? For instance could Wayne make one with himself and a friend inside, and the the friend make another inside the first? And would this compound the effect for outside of the first bubble? Also, Is there an opposite? So Wayne make a slow down bubble, the someone inside that makes a speed up bubble. Would that negate the first bubbles effect?
Kurkistan he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Kind of a random question: In alloy of law, Wayne can create time bubbles where time slows down outside the bubble. ( I think that's how it works...it's been a while). Could you nest time bubbles? For instance could Wayne make one with himself and a friend inside, and the the friend make another inside the first? And would this compound the effect for outside of the first bubble? Also, Is there an opposite? So Wayne make a slow down bubble, the someone inside that makes a speed up bubble. Would that negate the first bubbles effect? It's the opposite, actually: Wayne creates bubbles where time speeds up inside, Marasi where it slows down. Bubble overlap indeed works how you suggest. They overlap like Venn diagrams do (so your second example would look something like a donut so far as how time was affected) and the overlaps cause multiplicative effects. So two 10x speed bubbles overlapping would create an area of 100x speed. Any other questions about time bubbles? Edited January 23, 2015 by Kurkistan 2
Sdg10 Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 It's the opposite, actually: Wayne creates bubbles where time speeds up inside, Marasi where it slows down. Bubble overlap indeed works how you suggest. They overlap like Venn diagrams do (so your second example would look something like a donut so far as how time was affected) and the overlaps cause multiplicative effects. So two 10x speed bubbles overlapping would create an area of 100x speed. Any other questions about time bubbles? Nope thanks for the info! If I remember correctly Wayne uses his bubble as a way to fight more effectively to get a one on one situation. I wonder if we'll ever see an enemy surprise him by counteracting that with the opposite kind of bubble. Anyways, thanks
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) He has Royal Locks? I thought that he can change appearance because he is Returned. Well, I know that Returned generally look like they think they should look like, but I'm pretty sure they can learn to control it, just like Vivenna and Siri had to learn to control Royal Locks... He can change his appearance because he is Returned. He can change his hair because he is descended from Vo, the First Returned. Basically, what happened is this. Vo, the First Returned, got his wife pregnant in the only week he had to live. His wife had that child. (As mentioned earlier, Returned can have children.) All descendants of that child have a fraction of a Divine Breath inside them. Denth was a descendant of Vo, so he received the Royal Locks at birth. Denth died. Denth Returned. He still has the Royal Locks, so he can still change his hair color. Interestingly enough, Vivienna could use that portion of her Divine Breath to change herself to some degree: Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can’t change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice. (source) If you have any more Warbreaker questions, please ask. I'm a Warbreaker buff! Edited January 23, 2015 by inexorablePanda
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) He can change his appearance because he is Returned. He can change his hair because he is descended from Vo, the First Returned. Basically, what happened is this. Vo, the First Returned, got his wife pregnant in the only week he had to live. His wife had that child. (As mentioned earlier, Returned can have children.) All descendants of that child have a fraction of a Divine Breath inside them. Denth was a descendant of Vo, so he received the Royal Locks at birth. Denth died. Denth Returned. He still has the Royal Locks, so he can still change his hair color. Interestingly enough, Vivienna could use that portion of her Divine Breath to change herself to some degree: If you have any more Warbreaker questions, please ask. I'm a Warbreaker buff! But isn't hair the part of appearance? Was it somewhere specifically stated that Denth is descendant of Vo? EDIT: Because having Royal Locks makes you a descendant of a Returned, than I think that all Returned have to have the ability to change their hair colour by default. Or am I wrong in my reasoning. EDIT2: And to be honest I can't remember Denth changing hair colour at all. Which chapter was that? EDIT3: Ok, I found which chapter it was mentioned. EDIT4: Eh, ninja'd. xD Edited January 23, 2015 by Pestis the Spider
Kurkistan he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) We don't necessarily have "Denth is a descendant of Vo", but we do have confirmation that he has the Royal Locks independent of his being a Returned. So unless there's some other lineage of Royal Locks running around... Source: Kurkistan 3. Does Denth have the Royal Locks, independent of his being a Returned? Brandon: 3) Yes. (Good question.) Edited January 23, 2015 by Kurkistan 2
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Here. Although, by virtue of being Returned, Denth could change his hair anyway, he was descended from Vo, thus, he had the Royal Locks. Edit: The King of Quotes and Catquisitor ninja'd me again. It's not fair. Edit 2: Forgot that Denth could be descended from a different Returned. Thanks Kurk^^ Edited January 23, 2015 by inexorablePanda
Pestis the Spider she/her Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) We don't necessarily have "Denth is a descendant of Vo", but we do have confirmation that he has the Royal Locks independent of his being a Returned. So unless there's some other lineage of Royal Locks running around... Source: Well, we know that Returned in general can have children, and that Vo managed to do that in only a week, so it can't be that difficult. So I wopuld say it's pretty possible there were more kids like that. It's just really depends how many Returned were there between Vo and Denth. And I really have to admit that I would'd never think about asking such questions, I would just assume he can do that because of being Returned. So that was really a smart one, Kurkistan. Edited January 23, 2015 by Pestis the Spider
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Well, we know that Returned in general can have children, and that Vo managed to do that in only a week, so it can't be that difficult. So I wopuld say it's pretty possible there were more kids like that. It's just really depends how many Returned were there between Vo and Denth. And I really have to admit that I would'd never think about asking such questions, I would just assume he can do that because of being Returned. So that was really a smart one, Kurkistan. One thing that's important to remember is how the Cognitive Identity affects all of this. We know that the appearance of the Returned depends largely on how they view themselves. So why not their reproductive ability as well? Vo would have had no reason to believe that he couldn't produce children, so he does produce a child. Lightsong, however, firmly believes that Returned cannot, in fact, produce children. Presumably, Lightsong could not father children. Somewhere along the way, the priests have made the Returned believe that they cannot have children, thus, the Returned can't have children because of how they perceive themselves. (I think) Kurk is likely to jump on me for this, because I know he doesn't like this Cognitive hogwash as much as I do. It's just a pet theory of mine. But as you said, there could have been another Returned who, like Vo, fathered children. We just don't know. Brandon hasn't specifically mentioned anyone else, so any conjecture is just that. Conjecture.
Blaze1616 he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) One thing that's important to remember is how the Cognitive Identity affects all of this. We know that the appearance of the Returned depends largely on how they view themselves. So why not their reproductive ability as well? Vo would have had no reason to believe that he couldn't produce children, so he does produce a child. Lightsong, however, firmly believes that Returned cannot, in fact, produce children. Presumably, Lightsong could not father children. Somewhere along the way, the priests have made the Returned believe that they cannot have children, thus, the Returned can't have children because of how they perceive themselves. (I think) Kurk is likely to jump on me for this, because I know he doesn't like this Cognitive hogwash as much as I do. It's just a pet theory of mine. But as you said, there could have been another Returned who, like Vo, fathered children. We just don't know. Brandon hasn't specifically mentioned anyone else, so any conjecture is just that. Conjecture. Brandon actually, a long time ago, implied it did not have to do with Cognitive Identity, but rather the child in the womb: source Graendal A question that's been on my mind for a while. If Returned can't have children, how are Siri and Vivenna descended from one? Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. One I have to RAFO. When I was writing Warbreaker, I was planning on two books. I seeded two questions to be answered in the next book. One was the origin of the royal family. The second was how Vasher was able to survive while hiding his divine Breath. I will answer these questions. Eventually. (It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb.). Keep in mind that this was long enough ago that the reasons could be very different now in Brandon's head. He has given less information when asked similar questions since then: source Locke219 () Can Returned have children? If so, who was the first Returned to do so? Brandon Sanderson () I'm going to have to RAFO that one because it's a big RAFO question for the world. In-world, it is believed both that they cannot and that they can. Mythology speaks of it happening, yet many Returned by their own experiment have not been able to have children. This second WoB implies that Cognitive Identity has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Edited January 23, 2015 by Blaze1616
Guest Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Brandon actually, a long time ago, implied it did not have to do with Cognitive Identity, but rather the child in the womb:source Graendal A question that's been on my mind for a while. If Returned can't have children, how are Siri and Vivenna descended from one? Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. One I have to RAFO. When I was writing Warbreaker, I was planning on two books. I seeded two questions to be answered in the next book. One was the origin of the royal family. The second was how Vasher was able to survive while hiding his divine Breath. I will answer these questions. Eventually. (It has to do with restoring Breath and life to the child while still in the womb.). Keep in mind that this was long enough ago that the reasons could be very different now in Brandon's head. He has given less information when asked similar questions since then:source Locke219 () Can Returned have children? If so, who was the first Returned to do so? Brandon Sanderson () I'm going to have to RAFO that one because it's a big RAFO question for the world. In-world, it is believed both that they cannot and that they can. Mythology speaks of it happening, yet many Returned by their own experiment have not been able to have children. This second WoB implies that Cognitive Identity has nothing to do with it whatsoever. I should have said that Cognitive Identity might have something to with the "potency" of their "reproductive apparatus." I feel like it would.
Slater he/him Posted January 23, 2015 Posted January 23, 2015 Hey, quick questions, does anyone have the Q and A where Brandon confirms Hoid has seen worlds die? I know it was recent but I can't find it.
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