killersquirrel59 he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 So I was thinking about the division of the masculine and feminine arts as proscribed by Vorin teachings and the division really makes no sense. It is said that the feminine arts are defined mostly by the fact that they can do them with one hand and thus they are seen as more delicate. Well this is not strictly really the case. Ever tried sewing with one hand? It is technically possible but far from practical. And yet that is seen as a feminine art. Music is supposed to be a feminine art and yet most instruments (certainly the harp which I believe is specifically mentioned) require both hands to play effectively. Even consider writing. Think about the process of writing and what you are doing with your left hand. It's there to steady the page. Can't do that too well if your left hand is covered in a giant sleeve, at least not without getting ink everywhere, particularly when writing with a quill. In fact fighting, one thing that is definitely a masculine art, is far more practical to do one-handed than many of the feminine arts, at least for Shardbearers anyway since Shardblades are so light. In examination, this division of doing things one-handed really just doesn't hold up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Was it said that the division is based on what can be done with one hand? I always thought that it was more that feminine arts dealt with activities one could do alone, art, writing, logistics, while masculine arts dealt with other people, fighting, negotiation. Edited October 8, 2014 by Edgedancer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think the division of the arts came before the development of the fully covered Safehand. I like the groom's notion (or someone's) that most of the feminine arts have to do with relaxing and sitting while the masculine ones are all active and out and about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I remember it said somewhere that the division came from activities that could be performed with one hand, which then evolved into covering the safe-hand. I'll look for the quote, but if someone else can find it first that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardcellist Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The stratification does seem to be based on one-handed and two-handed activities, but it was in order to allow men to gain control over Shardblades. As far as Shardblade fighting goes, Adolin mentions that fighting two-handed with a Shardblade is a lot stronger. (Specifically, he mentions one-handed fighting as a weakness of Flamestance.) While it is possible (and some stances are based off of doing it this way), it is usually better to fight two handed. For drawing and writing, we have mention of lighteyed ladies steadying the page with their safehand. Music is a bit of a conundrum (flutes are also seen in The Way of Kings) but in a different passage Dalinar notes how lighteyed women got very adept at using only one hand. I would assume that the safehand was again used to hold the instrument while the freehand played. (Also, words like "harp" and "flute" are relatively generic; Kaladin's commentary as Hoid plays his flute makes the Alethi version seem more like a modern recorder, and historic instruments by the same name at times vary quite differently from their modern counterparts. WOB: LEINTON Oh something I forgot to mention when I went over my Q/A session with Brandon. Someone else's question was about the safehand and Brandon gave new information on it. BRANDON SANDERSON So that essay he told us about? The one that defined masculine arts as being ones with two hands and feminine needing only one? That was in order to let men secure power over Shardblades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think if i was Rosharan i would still learn to read, like Mr.T I also think Hoid was onto something on how women got the best pick of the arts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn he/him Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think if i was Rosharan i would still learn to read, like Mr.T I also think Hoid was onto something on how women got the best pick of the arts.. Generally, I think men pursuing feminine arts is considered shameful unless you're an ardent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 It does seem to me like being an ardent is the way to go. You get to basically do whatever you want to pursue your calling while having all your needs met and following none of the usual restrictions on sex or class striations. Technically you are a slave but not really in how you are treated (seemingly usually treated far better than ordinary Darkeyes) or the devoteries will come down on your Lord hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) I think if i was Rosharan i would still learn to read, like Mr.T. It does seem to me like being an ardent is the way to go. It seems as though you are both talking from a perspective of, "If I, personally, with the culture and sensibilities of growing up in the 1st World in the 21st Century of Earth were suddenly on Roshar, this is the life I would lead." And I agree with you. I think the reason it's more rare in the books is because they don't grow up with our values and culture, and the choices they make reflect that. EDIT: Grammar. Edited October 9, 2014 by Outis 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Very true. That statement is one of I would wish to take that path if I were suddenly teleported to Roshar, not one of a person growing up in that culture which would instill very different values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tavash Shar Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 We have an example of someone raised on another world with different values coming to Roshar and doing exactly what your talking about with Vasher/Zahel being a Warrior Ardant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) It seems as though you are both talking from a perspective of, "If I, personally, with the culture and sensibilities of growing up in the 1st World in the 21st Century of Earth were suddenly on Roshar, this is the life I would lead." And I agree with you. I think the reason it's more rare in the books is because they don't grow up with our values and culture, and the choices they make reflect that. EDIT: Grammar. Agreed, reading in most modern cultures is, if not exactly encouraged as much as it should be at least not actively discouraged, while within our cultural viewpoint I'd definitely rather be an Ardent than a soldier in world I'd potentially go the other way. (Although even more likely I'd probably become a Stormwarden) Edited October 14, 2014 by Voidus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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