Going From Outlining to Writing?

[Rus]

How do most people go from Outlining to Writing Scenes? Any have any hints or tips? Thanks in advance! (Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, it's my first day.)

Also, Howard loves that word YAMMERING, huh?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Rus

[Thought]

Is there anything in particular that is giving you trouble? Its easier to focus comments if there is.

I don't have too much advice to offer, since I tend to have trouble forcing myself to complete an outline before I start writing (but I've learned that I'm not the "discovery" writer that I used to think I was, so I try to stick with it). However, perhaps this is a problem for one of two reasons? The first might be that you simply don't know where to start the scene, and the second it that you might not have the confidence to write it.

In the first case, I'd recommend thinking about the conflict in your scene. Then, start the scene just as the conflict is heating up. If you are writing about a king meeting with a foreign emissary, start with the meeting already underway and the negotiations deteriorating. Generally, scenes in your story will need to center around a conflict, even if it isn't a major one. That conflict might be a character worrying about how they fit into the group of thieves that they've found themselves in (Vin in early Mistborn), or it might be how people will react when a character has a monitor removed (Ender at the start of Ender's Game).

If it is the second case, there's nothing to do but write anyways. I've had a lot of first-chapter disease because I always thought that things could be done better. I'm trying to get over that by just plowing through. It works, as long as I define success by what gets done, rather than my perceived quality of that work.

Hope that helps.

If that is the case, think about the conflict in your scene (hopefully you have the conflict in you outline: if not, the outline might be

[Rus]

Gosh, thanks for the thorough reply. I've got a bundle of conflicts, I'm just unsure how/when to start the story. I think I'd have to admit to world-builders disease a bit. In the past I have just outlined and outlined and outlined until the story was pretty much written. (world > history > themes > events > cultural story-arcs > individual story-arcs > actions > reactions > dialogue) I find this process pretty time consuming and I'm not sure if this is par for the course for outliners like me or if there is a point that most people diverge from their strict chronology and become discovery writers.

Thanks for the conflict tip, I can see how the in late, leave early rule could help writers get right to the point and get them invested in the scene.

Thanks again for your help. I should have phrased my question a bit better.

[Thought]

Ah, it sounds like your outlines are much more detailed than mine. Mine just give me enough information to have an idea of where a scene takes place, whose in it, and how it adds to the overall story.

The in late out early rule also helps prevent you from getting sidetracked with worldbuilding: there's no time for that when the bomb is about to go off/the deathstar is taking potshots at your fleet/Bruce Banner is getting angry.

Anywho, that aside, perhaps taking a different approach to your outline would help? The three act format may help you discard those ideas that you don't need. For me, writing a book is more like adding paint to a canvas, but it sounds like for you it is more like taking stone away from a block in order to produce a statue. I'm still listening through the backlog of Writing Excuses, but I don't think they've really touched upon what I like to call the "quest" version of the three act format. Have you played the game Chrono Trigger? It is an excellent example of this (spoilers follow). The game starts out with a "Minor Quest" (save the Princess), during which the basics of the game and the first Major Quest are established (time travel, the ability to change the future, and Magus). That takes us to the ruined future, where the party finds out that their world is doomed and that Lavos is to blame. They find out that Magus made Lavos, and the First Major Quest is underway! The basics of the second major quest start to appear (a red star, dreamstone, a displaced smith, magic, Ozzie's in a pickle, etc). We fight our way to the top of Magus's castle, have an epic fight, and then the twist: Lavos has a different origin. The party finally has their sights set on the right target and the Second Major Quest then focuses on that.

So, when you're writing, it might be useful to consider the Three Quest Format. A minor quest is the thing that will motivate your Heroes to go out into the greater world and discover The First Major Quest. Generally, if find that for epic fantasy, the Major quest is too major to not have a minor quest lead-in. WoT did this with having Rand and the others chased from their home. LotRs did this with Frodo being unexpectedly given the Ring. Even Mistborn did this: Vin's last job for her old gang is the minor quest that put her out into the world and got her noticed by Kelsier and the Major Quest. Of course, then they defeat the Lord Ruler and find out that he was, essentially, their Magus who was protecting them from Scadrial's Lavos.

Hopefully that is somewhat useful?

[Shivertongue]

Anywho, that aside, perhaps taking a different approach to your outline would help? The three act format may help you discard those ideas that you don't need. For me, writing a book is more like adding paint to a canvas, but it sounds like for you it is more like taking stone away from a block in order to produce a statue. I'm still listening through the backlog of Writing Excuses, but I don't think they've really touched upon what I like to call the "quest" version of the three act format. Have you played the game Chrono Trigger? It is an excellent example of this (spoilers follow). The game starts out with a "Minor Quest" (save the Princess), during which the basics of the game and the first Major Quest are established (time travel, the ability to change the future, and Magus). That takes us to the ruined future, where the party finds out that their world is doomed and that Lavos is to blame. They find out that Magus made Lavos, and the First Major Quest is underway! The basics of the second major quest start to appear (a red star, dreamstone, a displaced smith, magic, Ozzie's in a pickle, etc). We fight our way to the top of Magus's castle, have an epic fight, and then the twist: Lavos has a different origin. The party finally has their sights set on the right target and the Second Major Quest then focuses on that.

Upvoted for using Chrono Trigger as an example. Best game ever.

More on topic, I'm probably not the best to give advice to writing that uses an outline. I discovery write, and only begin outlining after I have discovered what the first half of the story is, so that I can thus plan out the second half. But the advice I give anyone who is having trouble starting is to - if you're an outliner - look at your outline and determine if what you have in the beginning is interesting enough to begin a story with. If not, go either back, before then, or move ahead to the most interesting way to begin the story. The issue may very well be that you are not as interested in the beginning of your story as you need to be.

Or, you could go with my better advice - JUST SIT DOWN AND WRITE!

It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be exciting. You could begin the first draft of your story with the main character reciting 600 pages of tax code. Whatever it takes to get momentum. Momentum is especially important if you're a discovery writer, like I am, but I imagine it's just as useful for outliners.

[Rus]

For me, writing a book is more like adding paint to a canvas, but it sounds like for you it is more like taking stone away from a block in order to produce a statue.

That quote is a pretty enlightening analogue; I wonder if that's the main difference between discovery writers and outliners. Anywho, thanks a ton fellas, you've certainly given me some food for thought. I think I'll hybrid both of your ideas and try re-framing my story with that three quest formula in mind - then once I've locked in an interesting beginning point it's just a matter of keeping my butt in the chair.

The weirdest thing, to me, about these posts is the fact that Chrono Trigger is the only RPG I've ever played. Quaint, huh? Did you guys get to play the version with the DBZ animator's cut scenes (on the PS1) or the older version (SNES)?