Cadmium uses

[Moogle]

If you'll read my first option, it matters. Because of the problem inherent in light/light-perceptions being unaffected by the time bubble, we get this weird situation where our TV shows the world outside in real-time, while we can see the real world passing by slowly/fastly. This applies to your example and would result in a weird situation where there's time travel with the signals: from the perspective of the outside transceiver it would be getting the signal every second despite the fact that it had not yet happened from inside the time bubble (which takes 3 outside-seconds to generate the signal).

 

Yes, this is a contradiction and should be impossible. But the facts are:

• The atmosphere does not explosively decompress/compress when a time bubble is used (it should by a naive interpretation of what it means to speed up time in an area - air molecules inside have more energy, so they should bounce outside the area more and decompress the area. And if the atmosphere isn't sped up inside a speed bubble, from the position of the person inside the 2x sped up speed bubble the air would basically be freezing cold. Also, it would be scorching hot in a cadmium bubble... and it's not, obviously).
• Also in relation to air pressure: a big object inside the speed bubble but not "inside" because it's not fully inside should be pushed out of the bubble by the sped-up air molecules, as there is a pressure differential. This does not happen.
• Light intensity does not diminish or intensify by the speed factor of the bubble.

This basically breaks physics, and the basic physical consequences (in one of my probably-wrong models) are time travel and other such weirdness.

 

I imagine it's all handwaved away, and so you're right that your method would work. The signal would be sent with a period 3x as long in a 3x slowdown bubble. In fact, I presume my second option is what is actually happening - the speed bubbles just spontaneously generate photons. But I just don't feel comfortable assuming that. Obviously the normal rules don't apply and we're missing something: matter is deflected when it enters/leaves a speed bubble, and we don't know why.

 

I am probably missing the real reason for why light and air behave as they do in a speed bubble. I will be interested in seeing how radios and the like work in speed bubbles.

 

(This is all made worse by the small voice inside me screaming 'there's FTL travel via Allomancy (which would require time travel shenanigans in all likelyhood, though space contraction/expansion is also possible), and you've just concluded that in one model of time bubbles signals will travel through time weirdly! Clearly this is evidence that this model is correct!')

Edited October 6, 2014 by Moogle

[Oudeis]

I hadn't realized you were talking about handwaving away quite so much logic in your example. And you still think it's a viable model?

 

So, in your model, let's say fifteen seconds pass. For simplicity, let's say it's a mere 3x time differential, so the bubble experiences a subjective 5 seconds. In those fifteen seconds, my transceiver, outside the bubble, will send fifteen pings. The bomb, inside the bubble, will get 3 pings per second. It will respond once per second, sending out five pings. But you're saying that as the signal goes from inside the bubble to outside, the interface of the bubble will simply decide to replicate the signal 10 times, to fill in all the extra seconds that the bomb itself isn't sending a ping.

 

If that's the case, if a bubble simply decides to replicate things that should exist in faster time, then why not set up Marasi with a rotary gun? It fires x bullets per second, but at an 8x time differential, not enough bullets leave the bubble. Won't the bubble simply decide to replicate the bullets, following whatever impulse makes it replicate the signal? By that measure, couldn't Marasi make a rotary gun fire 8x longer than usual for the same stockpile of ammo?

 

In short, your support for this theory is as follows: You posit two possible scenarios, state that if one of them is false the other has to be true because for some reason these are the only two possible scenarios, point out a few issues with one, and decide that this means the other absolutely has to be true, without inspecting it to see if it makes any more sense than the first scenario.

[Moogle]

So, in your model, let's say fifteen seconds pass. For simplicity, let's say it's a mere 3x time differential, so the bubble experiences a subjective 5 seconds. In those fifteen seconds, my transceiver, outside the bubble, will send fifteen pings. The bomb, inside the bubble, will get 3 pings per second. It will respond once per second, sending out five pings. But you're saying that as the signal goes from inside the bubble to outside, the interface of the bubble will simply decide to replicate the signal 10 times, to fill in all the extra seconds that the bomb itself isn't sending a ping.

 

Perhaps you're missing my point: in the model, light is perceived as if the sensors (the eyes for humans, and possibly receivers for bombs and the like) were not sped up. So the bomb, inside the bubble, will get one ping per second because the time bubble doesn't alter the receiver's speed. This results, seemingly, in time travel or some sort of a paradox. Yes, you'd think the bomb would receive 3 pings every second, but if that were true, then anyone inside a time bubble should see everything as dark, since they'd be 'processing' photons 3x as fast and thus only get 1/3 as many per 'frame' of human eyesight.

 

If you want to say your bomb in a 3x speed bubble is going to receive a radio signal 'ping' every 1/3 of a second when from the outside it's sending them at 1 ping per second, then you need to explain why the human brain is seeing the same number of photons as if there was not a speedup of time. (Radio signals are photons too!)

 

The other model is that, since the waves entering the bubble should only be at 1/n intensity from the reference frame of the viewer (where n is the speedup), and yet humans see light as being at 1 intensity, the bubble must somehow produce an n times increase in intensity, which means duplicating photons. (And no, it doesn't work on matter like you're suggesting with giving Marasi bullets. This is contradicted in the text when we see you can shoot into and out of a time bubble and only one bullet appears. This is photons only - and why photons, I have no clue.)

 

In short, your support for this theory is as follows: You posit two possible scenarios, state that if one of them is false the other has to be true because for some reason these are the only two possible scenarios, point out a few issues with one, and decide that this means the other absolutely has to be true, without inspecting it to see if it makes any more sense than the first scenario.

 

I feel as though you missed the last part of my post. I admit several times that I am incredibly uncertain, and that I'm missing something because I don't know why matter is deflected. I apologize if what I wrote was misleading and I implied that either of my theories must be correct.

 

I'd be interested in any models or theories made by you for why light and air pressure are different in time bubbles. Matter itself is sped up for seemingly everything but air particles, and it doesn't appear to affect photons - or if it does, it does it in a non-obvious way, such as duplicating them.

 

The answer might lie in individual photons (though there's really no such thing) and air particles not having their own Cognitive identities, and so they're not affected by the speed bubble. Only, if air is not affected by the time bubble (which would explain why there's no explosive decompression/compression), then it should feel cold/hot to humans (and it doesn't).

 

There's too many contradictions with time travel, and particularly electromagnetics, for me to feel confident asserting anything regarding signals entering or leaving time bubbles.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Moogle

[Oudeis]

The other model is that,

 

This is pretty much the point I was trying to make. Option A is clearly not possible. Option B is clearly not possible. The answer must, therefore, be that neither A nor B is correct. But you phrase this as though the two models you've posited are the only two possible ones, despite the fact that you've proven both of them false. We can sit here and continue discussing two obviously flawed models as long as you want, but they will remain two incorrect answers. I suppose if you can find something within either of them that speaks to an underlying principle upon which we can base a third model, it would have some utility, but you mostly seem to be saying that one model + handwaving is probably true, because you don't think the other one is. There is no utility in that.

[Pathfinder]

Ok, I do not like to speak for people, but I think Moogle's point is this. We have a reasonable expectation of what would happen if speed bubbles existed in real life thanks to our current understanding of physics. We would not be able to see into or out of the bubble. Atmospheric pressure would be an issue, and so on. Moogle is just stating that since these have been shown to NOT apply to these bubbles, there either has to be ANOTHER explanation, or handy wavey it just works because magic. Since we do not conclusively know either, we can extrapolate based on our understanding of science what OTHER things may be affected. Since light are waves, and radio signal are waves, it would be reasonable to deduce they would function in a similar manner. Since light is not affected, it would be reasonable to deduce that radio waves would not either. Moogle then generously pointed out the fallacy of this own reasoning by playing out why it WOULDN'T work that way (i.e. wibbly wobbly timey whimy paradoxes). So I do not feel he is so much as disagreeing with you, as pointing out based on what little we know about the situation, your view is not conclusive. 

 

edit: in summation, since like epics, it seems timebubbles break physics as we know them, we cannot conclusively yet state how they function or how they will interact with other objects

 

edit2: if i mis-represent you moogle, or am out of my depth in understanding the application of physics in this scenario, then i apologize, and please carry on lol

Edited October 7, 2014 by Pathfinder

[Moogle]

@Outis:
 
I was going on little sleep, so I apologize for my poor posts. Here's Peter Ahlstrom on the matter, from the time when Alloy was being written:

OK guys, help me out on this.

Let's take a bubble where time is sped up inside, maybe to 10x, maybe to 100x. I'm thinking that if there is no light source inside the bubble, but all light comes from the area outside the bubble, to an observer outside the bubble all light that goes inside and gets redshifted will get blueshifted back the same amount when it exits the bubble. So the outside observer won't see a color change at all. (I'm ignoring refraction for the purposes of this post, but someone else may elucidate.)

The person inside the bubble will see a redshift of all light coming into the bubble--but will also see far fewer photons per second, so the world will go dim or even black.

At low time-speedups, the person in the bubble will see UV light shifted into the visible range, so will start effectively seeing in UV. At very fast speeds he can see X rays or even gamma rays. (I don't know from Brandon what the max speedup is.)

If the person inside the bubble turns on a flashlight, this will be shifted into the UV or X-ray range when it leaves the bubble. You can fry everyone around you with deadly radiation this way.

When you have a bubble that slows time, the opposite happens. People inside can see in infrared or radio waves. And if they go slow enough, visible light from the outside is shifted into the X-ray or gamma-ray range and the person inside gets fried by radiation. If they turn on a flashlight, people outside get cooked.

Can anyone point out flaws in this analysis? Does anyone have magical suggestions for why any of these things wouldn't happen?

For practical reasons it looks like there will need to be a lot of handwavium burned.

(source)

 

There's very clearly handwavium burned at some point (in the actual book, there is no redshift or lightening/darking), the question is what exactly was handwaved and what effect this will have on radio signals.

 

My two models are the only ones that make sense to me (despite how they seem mostly wrong - though, the second model doesn't have any glaring logical issues, just huge abuses), and I've been hoping for someone to post more. Only, it's quite possible there are no others because of handwavium. I don't know, time bubbles are confusing.

 

You've asserted in this thread several times that a bomb could have a sort of 'ping pong' or 'heartbeat' signal, where a signal goes in/out of the time bubble, and a receiver detects the frequency of pings change. The issue is that this doesn't happen for electromagnetic radiation we see (humans do not see light darken/brighten/redshift/blueshift), so your assumption is contradictory with the observed behavior of photons (their frequency is not altered, only their intensity - your assumption is that signals would have their frequency altered).

 

To put it another way: if what you're assuming were true, outputting a waveform of some sort in a bendalloy bubble should cause it to 'slow down' and thus lengthen/have its frequency reduced when it leaves the bubble (redshifting). Except this doesn't happen, as when a flashlight is shined out of a cadmium bubble we can quite safely assume it will not fry everyone it is pointed at. (Peter mentions this bit as needing handwaving.)

 

I happen to think things would happen like you're assuming since that's the 'intuitive' assumptions we'd make, but then I also intuitively think light should darken/brighten in a time bubble so what do I know?

 

The mechanism by which light ignores the rules of time bubbles, which I have WoP on as being handwaved, is as yet unknown. That's all I'm trying to say. Until we know what it is, I don't think we can make any firm statements on the behavior of signals entering/leaving time bubbles.

 

@Pathfinder:

 

Mostly correct, thanks for the summary. Only issue in your understanding of my posts is that we should be able to see into and out of time bubbles (if light is affected) - it's just that light sources from inside/outside the bubble should darken or lighten to other observers, and they don't.

 

Also, while I do mostly throw out my model because it involves time paradoxes, I do leave open the small chance that these paradoxes actually exist and they are responsible for FTL travel.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Moogle

[Stormwalker]

I agree that I don't think there is any way to rectify time bubbles completely with physics, but perhaps there is at least one that uses relatively little handwavium. As it is a bit off topic, I'll put it in spoiler tags, but basically, I will try to deal with each of the problems addressed individually:

 

1) Air pressure and temperature:

This is the easiest. The local velocity (i.e. the one measured from someone inside the bubble) of air/objects that are inside the bubble is unchanged. Instead the bubble's boundary exerts a resistive force approximately equal to standard air pressure against objects trying to pass through it. Basically, it acts like a solid object to air, and so there is no explosive pressure changes observed. I think, although I may be wrong, there was even a WoB about how if someone were to try to punch through a bubble there would be a resistive force, so this explanation makes sense. Of course, it runs into a bit of problems if you make a bubble underneath the ocean (where the pressure is much greater), but I don't think it will take too many extra rules to explain that. This also means you can suffucate inside time bubbles, which I don't think we have any evidence against, and would certainly be an interesting effect.

 

2) Red/blueshift:

The simplest way of resolving this, I think, is to simply make time bubbles have their own index of refraction. What value of index you ask? Why, exactly the value to get rid of the time speeding up/slowing down effect, of course! (yeah, its a bit contrived) Of course, doing this would have some other effects on electromagnitism, and I'm pretty sure a really large index of refraction would probably make it opaque. However, I'm honestly too tired to think of what exactly will happen right now, and time bubbles will undoubtedly cause problems with EM forces anyway. Note: this theory would also explain the light not refracting.

 

3) Information transfer:

This is Moogle's TV paradox. It isn't quite resolved by the previous section, because it deals with the phase velocity of light, whereas the signal paradox is a problem of the group velocity (I think?). We could then resolve this by saying that the new index of refraction is independent of wavelength (thus the group and phase velocities are equal). In fact, this (I think) would exactly agree with what would be needed for part (2). As the otherwise-redshift would be have been caused from the time bubble, it would have the effect of modifying the phase velocity of the light by a constant factor for all frequencies (the constant of time dilation). Thus for (2), we would need a single index of refraction for all frequencies anyway.

 

4) Dimness:

This might be solved already from the previous two sections. If not, Moogle's double photons might work (I think his energy mechanism doesn't work because things can't be half-in/half-out of a time bubble), although this runs into the problem of if you emit exactly one photon of light out of the bubble, what happens? As you can't get half a photon of light on the other side (at least, without violating QM). Thus, I think it might work better if you just added a constant to the energy of a photon equation. i.e, E = ahf (instead of E=hf), where a (which is a function of position) is a time bubble factor that is exactly 1 in normal space, and increases/decreases in time bubbles by an appropriate factor to offset the loss of energy. Maybe this causes just as much problems with QM, but it doesn't seem as obvious to me at least.

 

As I said it is contrived and hand-wavy, but at the very least, I think it pushes the paradoxes further into the realms of QM and GR, which are probably not as much of a problem to most people. I'll try to think of explanations for these after more sleep. In hindsight, maybe this isn't as much different from Moogle's first theory as I thought.

 

 

In any case, using this modified theory, Outis's deadman switch would not work (the frequency of radio waves would be the same). Moreover, even if the theory is wrong, there is no reason to beleive a frequency change like that would happen, even if there isn't anything against it either.

[Moogle]

1) Air pressure and temperature:

This is the easiest. The local velocity (i.e. the one measured from someone inside the bubble) of air/objects that are inside the bubble is unchanged. Instead the bubble's boundary exerts a resistive force approximately equal to standard air pressure against objects trying to pass through it. Basically, it acts like a solid object to air, and so there is no explosive pressure changes observed.

 

A problem with this is that it doesn't handle the case where a big object (which is partially in the area of the speed bubble where the air would be sped up) should still have a pressure differential, which should cause the bubble to repel the object out of its area.

 

2) Red/blueshift:

The simplest way of resolving this, I think, is to simply make time bubbles have their own index of refraction. What value of index you ask? Why, exactly the value to get rid of the time speeding up/slowing down effect, of course! (yeah, its a bit contrived)

 

Wouldn't this cause visible distortions within a time bubble, like it seeming like everything in the bubble jumps in one direction then back as the bubble drops? I don't think we see this, but then I suppose my memories are hazy.

 

Thus, I think it might work better if you just added a constant to the energy of a photon equation. i.e, E = ahf (instead of E=hf), where a (which is a function of position) is a time bubble factor that is exactly 1 in normal space, and increases/decreases in time bubbles by an appropriate factor to offset the loss of energy.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't just do that. Isn't the equation for the energy of a photon derived based on quantum mechanical principles? This would basically violate the quantum in quantum mechanics, as you've no longer got discrete energy levels. (Unless... do time bubbles limit themselves to speeding up/slowing down time in integer multiples?)

 

---

 

Really, the easiest way to simplify the problem is, I suppose, to ask what sort of music would be played by a radio in a time bubble.

• If the music on the radio inside a bendalloy a bubble is slowed down, then there's a frequency change on the EM waves entering the bubble... except this contradicts the fact there's no frequency change on visible light (an EM wave). So this shouldn't be true.
• If the music plays at normal speed, then you run into time travel paradoxes. So this shouldn't be true.

I really don't like time bubbles. I can't really see a solution that works.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Moogle

[Oudeis]

From the first time we see inside a bendalloy bubble, when Wayne is pretending to be Wax's uncle and distracts the Harmses so he and Wax can have a moment, it's mentioned that most of what they say in the bubble would sound to those outside like a high-pitched blur. I will find the quote when I have a moment.

[Moogle]

What they sound like in the bubble is unrelated to the light issue. Sound waves are contractions and expansions through the air, which we've established as probably being sped up (since the air does not freeze/scorch them). We'd expect there to be a frequency change there. (Which is to say, you could probably use sound for your heartbeat signal... probably. Of course, this limits you to having the receiver very near to the bomb, which means the Allomancer squad could just put it in a time bubble too.)

 

As to the quote, here you go:

To the three visitors, only seconds had passed, and to their ears Waxillium and Wayne’s conversation would be sped up to the point that most of it would be inaudible. The coughing would cover anything else.

 

I'm surprised that much talking at once didn't come out as a burst of sound to the rest of the people there. The human voice tends to be between 80-1100 Hz, and the human ear can receive up to 20 khZ.

 

Looking it up, frequency range of tenors (I don't imagine Wax and Wayne are sopranos), puts as at 130-500 Hz for their voices. This means Wayne's speed bubble would have had to been over a 40x speedup, probably more, if their voices were to become so high pitched that no one outside could hear them. Seconds of real time passed, and Wax poured himself some tea and had a short conversation. I'd be surprised if it took more than a minute. This lets us estimate Wayne's capabilities surprisingly nicely, actually.

 

Assuming sound is sped up, anyways. Air pressure is such that it lets sound waves out, but there's no explosive decompression in a bendalloy bubble because... I don't know why. There's further issues: the pressure inside a time bubble is larger than the pressure outside the time bubble, and so the speed of sound waves will change as it passes through the time bubble in addition to the time-changing effects. And there should be some reflection of the sound waves as they pass through the materials of differing pressure, which would probably mean your voice should sound different once a time bubble goes up, like you're suddenly in a small room and can hear your own echo (this is not remarked on). This should also make their voices near-inaudible to the outside, given the huge pressure differences in an area where there's an 80x time speedup... which I suppose screws up my entire earlier calculations.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Moogle

[Kurkistan]

Here's another bit on sound from AoL:

 

[Wayne put up a speed bubble.] Everything outside slowed--bullets stilled in the air, shouts vanished, the waves diffusing as they hit the speed bubble. That did strange things to sound.

[Oudeis]

I'm personally putting time bubbles in with FTL, as something I'm simply not going to think about until Mr. Sanderson explains it to me. My apologies if this comes across as simply quitting the conversation, but the topic itself gives me more headache than it is worth.

[Dahak]

It's not a matter of frequency shift. The unit sends out a ping every second. The bomb is told, if you don't get a ping at least every other second, blow up. Even if there's absolutely no problem with the signal crossing the barrier, with cadmium the bomb will think many seconds have passed between pings.

 

That is a frequency shift, though. Its shifting from 1 hertz to a fraction of a hertz.

 

And observed behaviour says frequency shifts don't occur for EM radiation across the boundary of the bubble.

 

Can we answer this using Realmatics? Do we know if clocks are affected by Bendalloy bubbles? Or have we hit one of those the Spirit of the item feels it should work this way effects like in Forgery.

 

Or for that matter have we seen any one use Allomancy across the boundary? I don't remember Wax ever steel pushing things outside from inside one of Wayne's bubbles. And that ought to be a ridiculously powerful effect even if the pushes are inaccurate.

 

Scarily it is entirely possible that the way time works in a Bendalloy bubble is based on what Wayne's common sense tells him should be the effect. Or while you are in a time bubble you are seeing by the spirit of the light rather than it's physical component.

 

 

I'm personally putting time bubbles in with FTL, as something I'm simply not going to think about until Mr. Sanderson explains it to me. My apologies if this comes across as simply quitting the conversation, but the topic itself gives me more headache than it is worth.

 

Reasonable. There is an apparent inconsistency here, that is probably going to take a cunningly worded question to sort out and we'll know when we've found that question because it will get RAFO'd.

[Oudeis]

Or for that matter have we seen any one use Allomancy across the boundary?

 

I'm sorry, I cannot for the life of me recall which exact moment it was, though I suspect it was at the wedding, but I know Wax was inside a bendalloy bubble once and saw steellines go to every source of metal in the entire room. Since the Vanishers at this point were using normal weapons, not aluminum rounds, I don't know why he didn't just go super-heavy and Push each gun through each Vanisher. I guess cuz then the plot would have been over too quick? I guess the obvious answer is that he can see the lines but he can't Push on them but... that doesn't actually make any sense.

 

For that matter, Pushing on metal that's already outside the bubble should be instant cheating. Imagine a normal Coinshot pushing on a coin that's on a table outside of the bubble. He's added energy and now it's traveling away from him at 100mph. But it doesn't go very far, cuz it's h is different from the time bubble h. So it's only gone about five feet, and he can push on it again. This should add as much energy again as the first push did, so now it's going even faster. Travels a few more feet, and he Pushes AGAIN. Repeat over and over, and you should be able to make the coin go so fast the limiting factor becomes air resistance. This thing would have insane power.

 

And oh god my head this is why I'm trying to stay away from this topic. If someone replies and I don't respond, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to save my own sanity. Sorry!

Edited October 7, 2014 by Outis

[Moogle]

I know how you feel Outis. I've successfully stayed out of time bubble discussions for like a year, but this thread made me consider their implications again. Insanity lies in attempting to comprehend their nature.

[Kurkistan]

...Insanity lies in attempting to comprehend their nature.

 

You rang? 

[Pathfinder]

I'm sorry, I cannot for the life of me recall which exact moment it was, though I suspect it was at the wedding, but I know Wax was inside a bendalloy bubble once and saw steellines go to every source of metal in the entire room. Since the Vanishers at this point were using normal weapons, not aluminum rounds, I don't know why he didn't just go super-heavy and Push each gun through each Vanisher. I guess cuz then the plot would have been over too quick? I guess the obvious answer is that he can see the lines but he can't Push on them but... that doesn't actually make any sense.

 

For that matter, Pushing on metal that's already outside the bubble should be instant cheating. Imagine a normal Coinshot pushing on a coin that's on a table outside of the bubble. He's added energy and now it's traveling away from him at 100mph. But it doesn't go very far, cuz it's h is different from the time bubble h. So it's only gone about five feet, and he can push on it again. This should add as much energy again as the first push did, so now it's going even faster. Travels a few more feet, and he Pushes AGAIN. Repeat over and over, and you should be able to make the coin go so fast the limiting factor becomes air resistance. This thing would have insane power.

 

And oh god my head this is why I'm trying to stay away from this topic. If someone replies and I don't respond, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to save my own sanity. Sorry!

Not to drag you back in, but I was curious, and I looked it up. You are correct, it was at the wedding, Wayne was burning bendalloy and wax "took a deep breath; the coldness inside him melted away and became a flame as he burned steel that pinpointed each and every source of metal in the room"

[Stormwalker]

 

A problem with this is that it doesn't handle the case where a big object (which is partially in the area of the speed bubble where the air would be sped up) should still have a pressure differential, which should cause the bubble to repel the object out of its area.

 

 

 

I don't think this wouldn't be an issue because the resistive force would apply to the object as well, which would cancel out the force of the pressure difference.

 

 

Wouldn't this cause visible distortions within a time bubble, like it seeming like everything in the bubble jumps in one direction then back as the bubble drops? I don't think we see this, but then I suppose my memories are hazy.

 

 

Are you trying to describe refraction here (i.e. the bending of the light rays)? Because my point was that transversing the time bubble by itself should cause this, and the added index of refraction will do the exact opposite (and so cancel out the effect). However, now that I've had some sleep, I realize that the changed index of refraction isn't actually going to change the frequency of the light (only the wavelength), so it looks like this part doesn't work (and I can't think of any other way to get around the redshift problem). As for the dimness part:

 

 

I'm pretty sure you can't just do that. Isn't the equation for the energy of a photon derived based on quantum mechanical principles? This would basically violate the quantum in quantum mechanics, as you've no longer got discrete energy levels. (Unless... do time bubbles limit themselves to speeding up/slowing down time in integer multiples?)

 

Well, my idea was more along the lines of what if planks constant was larger inside the bubble. As far as I know, there isn't any way to theoretically calculate planks constant (without using other experimentally found constants), so I don't think it's a problem. In fact, in the wikipedia page on 'physical constants' it says this:

 

 

It is currently disputed^[2][3] whether any changes in dimensional physical constants such as G, c, ħ, or ε₀ are operationally meaningful

So at the very least it isn't obvious this would cause a problem. Of course, this is only a local change in the constant, so I would imagine there would definitely be some sort of wierd QM effect right at the boundary. However, this might not be noticible macroscopically.

[killersquirrel59]

And oh god my head this is why I'm trying to stay away from this topic. If someone replies and I don't respond, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to save my own sanity. Sorry!

 

No worries Outis. Save your sanity. Speed bubbles are nuts. I had to spend 3 pages of a word doc and go into realmatic theory just to be able to explain system for them for a tabletop game. Dealing with them is literally trying to combine Sanderson Realmatic Theory with 4 dimensional physics. Headaches are certain to ensue.

[MistLord]

Jumping back to the topic for a bit whilst also incorporating the idea of both the come up topics of a bomb and allomantic fibrials... Cadmium Grenade anyone? Freezing your enemies in an instant? All the advantages of the people using Cadmium to bide time (except for Feather's bomb diffusing example), except you yourself are not frozen.

 

Okay, you can go back to your temporal mechanics now

[Oudeis]

Cadmium: Went to donate blood today (double-red, so the process took about 45 minutes). Left Well of Ascension at home. It occurred to me that, even though I was simply waiting for something and wanted time to pass, the thing I was waiting for was my own body's blood, so I couldn't even have used cadmium to skip it. =(

[Oudeis]

Potential use for cadmium!

 

Very niche and very specific. If I were a feruchemistborn with all feruchemical and allomantic powers, I could land in the middle of a group of bad guys, in view of some people I wanted to impress, throw up a low-burn Cadmium bubble, then run around inside tapping so much speed I'm moving in slow-mo while the bad guys are functionally frozen, and show off how totally awesome I am at taking down the bad guys.

[natc]

Make an action movie.

Film all your bullet time shots with no SFX.

[kinxer]

Make an action movie.

Film all your bullet time shots with no SFX.

Would this not require actually shooting at people...?

[Oudeis]

Would this not require actually shooting at people...?

 

FOR CINEMA!