+Child of Hodor Posted November 13, 2023 Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) Are we sure all the Dawnshards have one word commands like CHANGE? It fits with the Shard intents also having a single name, but these are commands. Seems limiting if they are all one word. I'm looking for a classic Brandon trick of letting us assume a thing that is never stated. On a related but separate line of thought: Quote Intent encompasses more understanding. Command is specifically narrow. A lot of times, these things are gonna be conflated, because they basically can be. Like, if Vasher creates an awakened thing and says "go get me those keys." The Intent is: "I need the keys to get outta here. I want to be free." The Command is: "Go fetch keys. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/460/#e14636 Doesn't CHANGE seem the opposite of what Brandon is saying above? It is not specific or narrow at all. I'll add the caveat that he is talking off the cuff and he's only sort of answering the question from @Chaos about Dawnshards by giving a Warbreaker example, but he picked the same term Command for a reason they shouldn't mean vastly different things. Then again we've never seen one used. There may be more specifics involved when one wields a Dawnshard. The other thing with CHANGE is that when we try to guess the other commands we think of things like Connect or Form. Isn't connecting things inherently changing them? Almost everything falls under change except SURVIVE or similar command telling things not to change at all. Destruction is a change. Maybe CREATE, but investiture and matter can't be created or destroyed at a fundamental level. Create can only be altering existing things which is a change. I could see EXPERIENCE, FEEL or LIVE which could refer more intangible things like emotions. How about THINK? Adonalsium shouting "THINK, STUPID!" at a bunch of rocks . That's still a change though . Wait one is not like the others in some way. What if 3 of them are CHANGE because it is so broad you can do almost anything and only one of them is a different command? But why would Adonalsium create 3 of the same thing when there is only 1 of him? Maybe he kept losing them? The 4th one is FIND so he can find the three he lost, but then he lost that one too? Adonalsium had ADHD, confirmed. So do I and that's probably enough of me riffing with myself. Thanks for reading Edited November 13, 2023 by Child of Hodor
Onironte he/him Posted November 13, 2023 Posted November 13, 2023 Brandon says that there is one different from the others. Quote Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 9, 2020) #2 Nov. 9, 2020 Share Copy MoriWillow You once told us that one of the Dawnshards was different from the others. As of the events of this novella, is that still true? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Footnote: MoriWillow is referring to this WoB . It could be that he refers to Change being incompatible with Survive and the others hypothetical Dawnshards, but since we have only seen one Dawnshard on screen (Rysn's one), I don't think we can resolve for sure what he refers to. Despite everything, I think they can be derived in some way from the intention of each of the shards, if not as proposed by @TheoreticalMagic in "Shard Patterns", something similar. 1
alder24 Posted November 13, 2023 Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said: Are we sure all the Dawnshards have one word commands like CHANGE? It fits with the Shard intents also having a single name, but these are commands. Seems limiting if they are all one word. I'm looking for a classic Brandon trick of letting us assume a thing that is never stated. On a related but separate line of thought: Doesn't CHANGE seem the opposite of what Brandon is saying above? It is not specific or narrow at all. I'll add the caveat that he is talking off the cuff and he's only sort of answering the question from @Chaos about Dawnshards by giving a Warbreaker example, but he picked the same term Command for a reason they shouldn't mean vastly different things. Then again we've never seen one used. There may be more specifics involved when one wields a Dawnshard. The other thing with CHANGE is that when we try to guess the other commands we think of things like Connect or Form. Isn't connecting things inherently changing them? Almost everything falls under change except SURVIVE or similar command telling things not to change at all. Destruction is a change. Maybe CREATE, but investiture and matter can't be created or destroyed at a fundamental level. Create can only be altering existing things which is a change. I could see EXPERIENCE, FEEL or LIVE which could refer more intangible things like emotions. How about THINK? Adonalsium shouting "THINK, STUPID!" at a bunch of rocks . That's still a change though . Wait one is not like the others in some way. What if 3 of them are CHANGE because it is so broad you can do almost anything and only one of them is a different command? But why would Adonalsium create 3 of the same thing when there is only 1 of him? Maybe he kept losing them? The 4th one is FIND so he can find the three he lost, but then he lost that one too? Adonalsium had ADHD, confirmed. So do I and that's probably enough of me riffing with myself. Thanks for reading I'm quite certain that Dawnshard commands will be a single-word. Change is showing us the pattern. Not every command has to be specific - "destroy evil" is massively unspecific and undefined. Change seems to be very unspecific and broad. It can encompass almost everything, but this is not what the Change Dawnshard is about, the Change Dawnshard is specific, Dawnshard ch 19: Quote Storms, she thought. What have I done? What you needed to, another part of her thought. You have adapted. You have Remade yourself. It was then that she grasped, in the smallest way, the nature of the Command inside her. The will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better. The power to change. The Change Dawnshard is specifically a positive change.The power to remade things - I think it's about improvement that also preserves the core of a being, not making it into something else entirely. Destroy is a negative change with nothing being preserved, Create is a non specific change (it doesn't matter that investiture can't be created or destroyed, that's not what Dawnshards are about, they use investiture to change, create, destroy or stuff like that) - it can be positive, negative or even neutral, but it changes things into something entirely new. The same goes for concepts like Bind or Unite. Uniting things isn't positive or negative on its own, it depends what do you unite into what - like unification of Ruin and Preservation was mostly positive, while unification of Devotion and Dominion's investiture was negative. I would argue Survival isn't about not changing, as to survive one has to change, survival is about adaptation. From the quote it seems like the Change already encompasses this idea. Just look at Era 1, Kelsier had to first adapt to his role as a Mistborn after surviving the Pits of Hathsin, then he had to adapt as a leader of the rebellion and a teacher, Vin has to also adapt to her role of a Mistborn and a spy among nobles. After their success they had to adapt again, and then once more after the release of Ruin - constant adaptation to the ever changing conditions in order to survive. Those who couldn't adapt were the first to die - like Skaa from villages who locked themselves inside when Mist didn't vanish with the sunrise. Even the Shard of Preservation itself had to change to Survive, it had to kill to survive - that's a massive change. Feel, Live or Think are more abstract concepts, still possible as Dawnshard commands but it's hard to come up with what they would do when used. Making things sapient? Sure, possible, maybe that's how life came to be. It's quite likely there is some mental or emotional type of Dawnshard, those would be great candidates. I'm not trying to advocate in favor of one Dawnshard theory or another, there are dozens of them and it's impossible to say which one is correct. There are too many words and concepts that fit as Dawnshard commands quite nicely. I simply don't have a mind for this kind of puzzle. And I don't think this topic is about this anyway. 2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: But why would Adonalsium create 3 of the same thing when there is only 1 of him? Who said Adonalsium created Dawnshards? 2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: The 4th one is FIND so he can find the three he lost You mean one Dawnshard to Find them all? Hmm... 2
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