MyShame Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 I've been thinking of this theory for a while and have shared in a couple of places, but I think that anyone with the correct connection can use god metals as metalminds, similarly to how anyone with the correct connection can burn a god metal. Nobody in text has tried storing into pure atium or lerasium. There was too little lerasium and atium has only ever been seen as an alloy. Harmonium seems to act very similarly to a metalmind. I think harmonium store kinetic investiture the same way nicrosil stores innate investiture (or whatever term best describes the ability to use investiture). I think because of its unstable nature the stored attribute isn't able to stay and leaks out which causes the effect seen in the books. This leads to the question, why haven't other worlds used their godmetals as metalminds? Feruchemy requires intent and without knowing what feruchemy is or what the metals would store they couldn't use it. It is possible that other worlds have used it. The honorblades in Stormlight Archives act almost the exact same way as unsealed metalminds, which is what got me thinking about this theory. Trellium seems like an outlier as it was common enough that they should have tried using it feruchemically or allomantically it but as far as we are aware did not. I think this might be because Autonomy naturally repels all other forms of investiture and thus can't be used. I'm not convinced of this explanation because Trellium is used in hemalurgy just fine, but I don't know why else it wouldn't have been tried Are there any WOBs that disprove this theory? I couldn't find any. 2
Quantus he/him Posted October 9, 2023 Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) Greetings and Welcome to the Shard! 41 minutes ago, MyShame said: I've been thinking of this theory for a while and have shared in a couple of places, but I think that anyone with the correct connection can use god metals as metalminds, similarly to how anyone with the correct connection can burn a god metal. Nobody in text has tried storing into pure atium or lerasium. There was too little lerasium and atium has only ever been seen as an alloy. Harmonium seems to act very similarly to a metalmind. I think harmonium store kinetic investiture the same way nicrosil stores innate investiture (or whatever term best describes the ability to use investiture). I think because of its unstable nature the stored attribute isn't able to stay and leaks out which causes the effect seen in the books. This leads to the question, why haven't other worlds used their godmetals as metalminds? Feruchemy requires intent and without knowing what feruchemy is or what the metals would store they couldn't use it. It is possible that other worlds have used it. The honorblades in Stormlight Archives act almost the exact same way as unsealed metalminds, which is what got me thinking about this theory. Probably just a lack of experimentation, Id say. Godmetals on Roshar are either innately alive or they come as a direct Gift from the Shard itself like with the Honorblades or Raysium, and surges were pretty heavily regulated by their Shard(s) directly. Other than Trellium showing up during Autonomy's attack on Scadrial (and that could just be due to the metal-centric nature of the metallic arts specifically), I dont think we've actually seen any others, though we do know they exist as a matter of cosmere theme. Quote Trellium seems like an outlier as it was common enough that they should have tried using it feruchemically or allomantically it but as far as we are aware did not. I think this might be because Autonomy naturally repels all other forms of investiture and thus can't be used. I'm not convinced of this explanation because Trellium is used in hemalurgy just fine, but I don't know why else it wouldn't have been tried That probably shouldnt be a barrier all on it's own. The same can be said for Godmetals and taking on Investiture, and there's still a strong possibility that Aluminum sinks Identity without actually Storing it, so Trellium might do something similar. Quote Are there any WOBs that disprove this theory? I couldn't find any. I dont think there's anything addressing the Burning retcon or it's possible implications on Feruchemy. The Devil's Advocate statement is just that all Feruchemy (even on a godmetal) might still require Scadian sDNA and not be impacted by universality of Burning a godmetal. We still dont know how one might Gain feruchemy so there might simply be ano0ther piece to it. Edited October 9, 2023 by Quantus 1
IlstrawberrySeed Posted October 23, 2023 Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/9/2023 at 10:42 AM, MyShame said: I've been thinking of this theory for a while and have shared in a couple of places, but I think that anyone with the correct connection can use god metals as metalminds, similarly to how anyone with the correct connection can burn a god metal. Nobody in text has tried storing into pure atium or lerasium. There was too little lerasium and atium has only ever been seen as an alloy. Harmonium seems to act very similarly to a metalmind. I think harmonium store kinetic investiture the same way nicrosil stores innate investiture (or whatever term best describes the ability to use investiture). I think because of its unstable nature the stored attribute isn't able to stay and leaks out which causes the effect seen in the books. This leads to the question, why haven't other worlds used their godmetals as metalminds? Feruchemy requires intent and without knowing what feruchemy is or what the metals would store they couldn't use it. It is possible that other worlds have used it. The honorblades in Stormlight Archives act almost the exact same way as unsealed metalminds, which is what got me thinking about this theory. Trellium seems like an outlier as it was common enough that they should have tried using it feruchemically or allomantically it but as far as we are aware did not. I think this might be because Autonomy naturally repels all other forms of investiture and thus can't be used. I'm not convinced of this explanation because Trellium is used in hemalurgy just fine, but I don't know why else it wouldn't have been tried Are there any WOBs that disprove this theory? I couldn't find any. I personally disagree with this. First, Burning a pure Shardmetal isn't Alomancy, it's another magic system. Thus, burning a shardmatal-base alloy would be a hybrid magic like compounding. This other shardmetal magic is universal. Additionally, more recent WoB suggest that connection isn't required. That said, there is a nugget of evidence suggesting that pure Shardmetals burned by an allomancer can either do the shardmetal thing or something else. The latter may require connection to the shard, but this seems unlikely to me. As such, allomancy isn't unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, since it's a different magic system. Secondly, Hemalurgy is an unusual magic system in that it's naturally universal, just like shardmetal burning. There is no need for shardmetal versions of hemalurgy (if it's hemalurgy instead of shardmetal magic) to be unnaturally universal. As neither Hemalurgy nor "Allomancy" being made unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, I don't see feurochemistry being unnaturally universal with shardmetalminds.
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted October 27, 2023 Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) On 10/23/2023 at 5:24 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said: I personally disagree with this. First, Burning a pure Shardmetal isn't Alomancy, it's another magic system. Thus, burning a shardmatal-base alloy would be a hybrid magic like compounding. This other shardmetal magic is universal. Additionally, more recent WoB suggest that connection isn't required. That said, there is a nugget of evidence suggesting that pure Shardmetals burned by an allomancer can either do the shardmetal thing or something else. The latter may require connection to the shard, but this seems unlikely to me. As such, allomancy isn't unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, since it's a different magic system. Secondly, Hemalurgy is an unusual magic system in that it's naturally universal, just like shardmetal burning. There is no need for shardmetal versions of hemalurgy (if it's hemalurgy instead of shardmetal magic) to be unnaturally universal. As neither Hemalurgy nor "Allomancy" being made unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, I don't see feurochemistry being unnaturally universal with shardmetalminds. That's a reasonable argument, but can you link the WoBs and sources you're basing these ideas off of? Edited October 27, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper
IlstrawberrySeed Posted October 31, 2023 Posted October 31, 2023 On 10/26/2023 at 6:37 PM, Underwater_Worldhopper said: That's a reasonable argument, but can you link the WoBs and sources you're basing these ideas off of? On 10/23/2023 at 9:24 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said: I personally disagree with this. First, Burning a pure Shardmetal isn't Alomancy, it's another magic system. Thus, burning a shardmatal-base alloy would be a hybrid magic like compounding. This other shardmetal magic is universal. Additionally, more recent WoB suggest that connection isn't required. That said, there is a nugget of evidence suggesting that pure Shardmetals burned by an allomancer can either do the shardmetal thing or something else. The latter may require connection to the shard, but this seems unlikely to me. As such, allomancy isn't unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, since it's a different magic system. Quote Brandon Sanderson Chapter Thirty-Eight Preservation's Power All right, so maybe I lied about there only being three magic systems in this book. It comes down to how you term the powers of Preservation and Ruin, who kind of blanket the entire system. There are a lot of things going on here, and—well, the truth is I don't want to mention all of them, for fear of spoiling future books. However, I'll give you a few rules to apply. First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation's did in the bead of metal Elend ate. Second, there is a bit of Preservation inside of all the people—and it's this that allows the people to perform Allomancy. It needs to be awakened and stirred to be of use, but when it is, a proper metal can draw forth more of Preservation's power. It's like the metal attunes the bit within the person, allowing it to act as a catalyst to grab more power. Allomancy is not fueled by metal; it is fueled by Preservation. The metal is the means by which a person can access that fuel, however. If there were another way to access it, then the metal wouldn't be needed. Preservation's touch on people differs. Some have more, some have less. This doesn't make them better or worse people—indeed, some most touched by Preservation have been among the worst people in the world. As Ruin later points out, there is a difference between being evil and being destructive. Regardless, if a person can get more Preservation into them, they become better Allomancers. Hence Elend becoming a Mistborn. Like all people, he had the potential within him—it was just too small of a potential to be awakened through normal means. That little jolt of Preservation's body, however, expanded and awakened his Allomancy. As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else. The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 12, 2009) Quote Brandon Sanderson Atium's Mechanism Atium is, indeed, different from the other metals. When you burn most Allomantic metals, it opens a conduit through which you can draw upon Preservation's power and use it in very specific ways. Atium doesn't do that. Atium is, itself, a fuel. When you burn it, the metal itself provides the power. A subtle distinction, I know, but it has to do with where the power is coming from. Most Allomancy is fueled by Preservation, but atium and malatium are fueled by Ruin. This metal doesn't quite belong on the table where it has been placed. The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 1, 2010) Quote NeedsToShutUp What would happen if Hoid tried to burn the shard that came off Ishar's Honorblade? Brandon Sanderson If you were able to get a hold of that piece and burn it, it would act like burning... You would be burning a very pure form of a God Metal, and those have some very interesting effects. RAFO. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Quote mail-mi We know that any person can burn lerasium. Are there other God Metals that any person can burn? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Quote Kuron (paraphrased) Is it possible for a full Mistborn to ingest and burn a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It is possible, and it is possible that I might be able to see that in the future if I can fit that in. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Compare these responces (and dates) to this: Quote word_thief What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate? Brandon Sanderson A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen… General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013) He immediately brings up the issue of it being like a metalmind. Same with brining nightblood (though I don't have that WoB). On 10/23/2023 at 9:24 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said: Secondly, Hemalurgy is an unusual magic system in that it's naturally universal, just like shardmetal burning. There is no need for shardmetal versions of hemalurgy (if it's hemalurgy instead of shardmetal magic) to be unnaturally universal. Quote Spoiler Questioner Hemalurgy is mentioned as something that has "broad implications." But that's of Ruin, right? (Or now it is of Harmony.) Brandon Sanderson Yes, but don't take the "of Ruin" and "of Preservation" too strongly, but yes. Questioner But, I mean, somebody couldn't just walk along with a metal spike on, say, Nalthis, and stab 'em and now they have the power, could they? Brandon Sanderson If they knew where to stab them, yes, they could. Questioner Anywhere in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Spoiler Questioner You can stab someone and get their power? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy has been built in such a way that it rips off pieces of the soul. If you can rip off the right piece of the soul and attach it to somebody else, it will change your Identity, and it can rewrite anything that's attached to your soul. Identity, Connection, it can rewrite Investiture, all of this stuff it could potentially do. Questioner And do the things you stab people with—are they always metal or does that depend on the planet? Brandon Sanderson No, that's metal, that's— Questioner *inaudble* Brandon Sanderson Well yes, you could make it do something like that. That is totally possible. But the metal— Yeah. Anyway. Questioner With the other Shards you kind of have to be near that Shard to get that—there's no Allomancy. Brandon Sanderson To get it, yes. To have that part of your soul. But, for instance, Allomancy would work on other planets. The only one that's going to have trouble working on other planets, right now, are the ones on Sel because of the way that the magics are built. Firefight Seattle Public Library signing (Jan. 7, 2015) Spoiler Chaos (paraphrased) Can Hemalurgy be used to steal magic attributes from any Shardworld? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Hemalurgy has larger ramifications then just Scadrial. That's about all he'd say. Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010) On 10/23/2023 at 9:24 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said: As neither Hemalurgy nor "Allomancy" being made unnaturally universal when used with shardmetals, I don't see feurochemistry being unnaturally universal with shardmetalminds.
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