Satsuoni Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Ok, this is only indirectly related to Brandon, so I put it here. I was listening to writing excuses, "When good characters go bad", and that caused me to think about main character in general, and some trends in literature that I dislike. I have thought about many books I have read, and realized that almost none (certainly none that I could recall) have a main character growth that is consistent with what I would call good. For example, many of them would grow more "mature" over the course of the story, instead of ,um, opposite. So, can anyone recommend me a book (fantasy or sci-fi), in which main character (protagonist) follows (any) one of the loose guidelines below?: 1. A character tries being more mature and/or responsible, dislikes it and goes back to being carefree/childlike. 2. A character uses his powers primarily for his/her own gain, as he/she gains them. When someone starts harping about responsibility, s/he does not listen, and nothing happens. 3. Character accepts that his/her principles are more important than consequences of following said principles, as long as the consequences do not directly harm his/her circle (loved ones, etc). 4. Reviving loved ones (pets included) (mind intact) is good, even if you have to sacrifice a few hundreds of strangers for it. 5. Character accepts, over the course of the story, that only he/she matters (he/she naturally extending over empathy links). Or something along this lines. Please? [EDIT] A few additional stipulations: the book shall not use the above requirements for comedic/ tragedy value. The plot should be coherent, and the hero win in the end. That is to say, for example, like Misborn from the Ruin POV, with Ruin winning in the end, but preferably on a human scale. Edited January 14, 2012 by Satsuoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Moved to the "other books" section because it seems a bit more appropriate there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 so, initially, when i moved this topic, i couldn't think of any books that fit your description. However, recently i realized i do know a couple that may fit the bill. They're both two parts of the whole story, its The Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga by Jack Vance. They're both about the same man, Cugel, and from the beginning to the end, the guy pretty much remains a dick, but at time shows some signs of empathy and compassion, and pretty much always ends up throwing it out the windows for his own personal gain. He very much, in my opinion, fits the bill for number 2, and perhaps at times 1 (though he's never really "childlike" or anything). He doesn't really have any "powers" per say, he's pretty much a standard guy who happens to be rather lucky, charismatic, and skillful. However, there are a lot of various magical/supernatural things over the course of the entire book(s). There's a pretty good description on "the eyes of the overworld" about his character. Theyre both a couple of older (70's or so) books, and they're part of Vance's "Dying earth" series. You can get them in the full collection called "Tales of a dying earth". I'm not sure if you can get them individually anymore. The other books in the series are unrelated (the first one is a collection of short stories, basically, and the last one is an unrelated tale) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) OK, got it. Thank you! I'll try reading it now. [EDIT] Finished reading. Not the best of the books. I fear I have forgotten to add additional stipulations to my request. I shall fix this error with all haste. Edited January 14, 2012 by Satsuoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guess Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Read Joe Abercrombie. He has characters grow darker and more brutal. Best Served Cold: Carl Shivers was a killer in the past. He wants to be a better man now. As the book goes on he descends and becomes a worse killer than he was before. He decides that everyone ends up dead, so why bother. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Read Joe Abercrombie. He has characters grow darker and more brutal. Best Served Cold: Carl Shivers was a killer in the past. He wants to be a better man now. As the book goes on he descends and becomes a worse killer than he was before. He decides that everyone ends up dead, so why bother. Thank you for your suggestion! Checking it out... And does he? (kill them and have fun, i mean?) Also, I am a little leery of dark/angsty books: my modd is easy to influence ( I had nightmares for days after reading Stephen King once. I have never touched another of his books) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you for your suggestion! Checking it out... And does he? (kill them and have fun, i mean?) Also, I am a little leery of dark/angsty books: my modd is easy to influence ( I had nightmares for days after reading Stephen King once. I have never touched another of his books) Joe Abercrombi is one of the most perfect mixes of grim and funny I've come across. You should especially look into The Heroes and Best Served Cold (one of my all-time favorites). All of them feature secondary characters from The First Law Trilogy however, so it may be best to start there. It probably won't give you nightmares, but they may make you severely depressed/hopeless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Finished "Best Served Cold". Not that bad, but only barely fantasy, more in the realm of historical fiction (need more magic...). Also, the protagonist seem to glow somewhat less selfish... OK, some requirement are spot on, though. Thanks for suggestion! What about some "going of age" book (as opposed to coming of age), where protagonist gets more childish and powerful as the book progresses? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scattered Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't know about characters growing more childlike, but if you're looking for books where the selfish bad guy wins, I'd definitely have to agree with Yados. The First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie is exactly what you're looking for. Everyone's a murderer except for the court dandy, who's as selfish and childish as you could hope for. He tries to mature a little throughout the books, but it doesn't actually do anyone any good. I enjoyed the books until the end of the trilogy. The ending made me so depressed and angry that I gave the books away because I never want to read them again. The first book in that series is called The Blade Itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliare Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Sorry it took me such a long time to answer. I don't know if you have heard about the Time Master trilogy, by Louise Cooper. It's absolutely wonderful. Well, the fact is, that trilogy has a prequel (though I recommend reading it after you read the main one if you are going to read the full thing), Star Shadow (Star Ascendant, Eclipse and Moonset). It's... well, has a bit of something of what you say, and it is a very interesting book to read, and Louise Cooper is a great storyteller. I like Time Master better, but that does not mean this isn't great. Edited March 24, 2012 by Alliare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Thanks! I'll check it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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