Nicrosil can help in getting all powers in cosmere thorough feruchemy and hemalurgy

[Truthwatcher Aakash]

I read this somewhere in wob where he said that nicrosil can be used to store Devine breath of a returned. Then i started thinking let's say there is a full feruchemist with knowledge of hemalurgy. He can steal the devine breath of a returned through hemalurgy and give himself fifth heightening through hemalurgic spike and then he put that Investiture in his nicrosil metalmind by filling it and then remove the hemalurgic spike and heal himself with gold metalmind. Healing both his physical body as well as his spiritweb. Although the healing of his spiritweb won't be absolute but atleast there won't be a hole in his spiritweb  (which cannot be exploited by anyone) that is caused by hemalurgy. 

If it's possible then why not also steal other ability to use a certain magic and store that in your nicrosil metalmind. This method could give you powers without a big disadvantage of hemalurgy.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Truthwatcher Aakash said:

I read this somewhere in wob where he said that nicrosil can be used to store Devine breath of a returned. Then i started thinking let's say there is a full feruchemist with knowledge of hemalurgy. He can steal the devine breath of a returned through hemalurgy and give himself fifth heightening through hemalurgic spike and then he put that Investiture in his nicrosil metalmind by filling it and then remove the hemalurgic spike and heal himself with gold metalmind. Healing both his physical body as well as his spiritweb. Although the healing of his spiritweb won't be absolute but atleast there won't be a hole in his spiritweb  (which cannot be exploited by anyone) that is caused by hemalurgy. 

If it's possible then why not also steal other ability to use a certain magic and store that in your nicrosil metalmind. This method could give you powers without a big disadvantage of hemalurgy.

We don't know how nicrosil Feruchemy works. We know medallions are different, more restrictive, and the nicrosil portion works like a coppermind, but F-nicrosil most likely works like other attributes - you can't store 100% of it and it only weakens or increases your ability. We don't know if you could store powers from spikes, but if it works like other attributes, then you could never store all of it, so it should work with spikes. I don't think this is possible. 

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

6 hours ago, Truthwatcher Aakash said:

I read this somewhere in wob where he said that nicrosil can be used to store Devine breath of a returned. Then i started thinking let's say there is a full feruchemist with knowledge of hemalurgy. He can steal the devine breath of a returned through hemalurgy and give himself fifth heightening through hemalurgic spike and then he put that Investiture in his nicrosil metalmind by filling it and then remove the hemalurgic spike and heal himself with gold metalmind. Healing both his physical body as well as his spiritweb. Although the healing of his spiritweb won't be absolute but atleast there won't be a hole in his spiritweb  (which cannot be exploited by anyone) that is caused by hemalurgy. 

If it's possible then why not also steal other ability to use a certain magic and store that in your nicrosil metalmind. This method could give you powers without a big disadvantage of hemalurgy.

Interesting. Personally, I think it could work, though Identity Contamination may prevent it (if Brandon ever considers it, that is). If it does, you could perhaps use F-aluminum to blank your spike's Identity to make it possible.

There would also be the Identity of the Nicrosilmind to consider, which would hold both the Identity of the Hemalurgist and that of the spike (which the Hemalurgist would no long have once the spike was removed), though Blanking the spike's Identity would once again make this a non issue.

So, I think it's possible, though you'd probably have to deal with Identity Contamination first and you may face similar restrictions to the creation of multi-powered Medallions, where you could only wield a medallion with a few powers put into it at any given time.

Still, it's a good idea. Good work and welcome to the Shard 

[trav]

I am really looking forward to Brandon expanding on Nicrosil.

The way I see it he will either retcon stuff or compromise his magic system. The part where you tap into it before being able to tap anything is kind of a deal breaker in my mind.

[Trusk'our he/him]

50 minutes ago, trav said:

I am really looking forward to Brandon expanding on Nicrosil.

The way I see it he will either retcon stuff or compromise his magic system. The part where you tap into it before being able to tap anything is kind of a deal breaker in my mind.

The way I see it, the medallions provide the part that's needed for the person to Tap into their power. They're semi-aware and can therefore "choose" to grant power to someone based on their Intent, somewhat similar to how Spren work with Radiants.

Quote

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

It's different from what we've seen on Scadrial before, but not all that new to the Cosmere as a whole.

[trav]

On 22/09/2023 at 5:08 PM, Trusk'our said:

the medallions provide the part that's needed for the person to Tap into their power

Of course. That is a necessity.

On 22/09/2023 at 5:08 PM, Trusk'our said:

They're semi-aware and can therefore "choose" to grant power to someone based on their Intent

Sounds plausible even if its unlikely.

It would fall under the retcon part where Nicrosil minds of Scadrial would also need to be some sort of awakened object to function.

You seem to understand what I meant though. Not sure if I got my point across correctly. Its the process of even tapping into a Nicrosil mind without any form of Feruchemy that is the kicker. Even if the Nicrosil mind could grant you all powers there are in the cosmere you would first need to be able to tap Nicrosil and I see no good way to make that work like in the unsealed metalminds unless Brandon just says "well everyone can tap Nicrosil for [whatever reason]" or like you said, giving Scadrials the ability to create awakened objects/robo sprens with intent.

[alder24]

16 minutes ago, trav said:

It would fall under the retcon part where Nicrosil minds of Scadrial would also need to be some sort of awakened object to function.

You seem to understand what I meant though. Not sure if I got my point across correctly. Its the process of even tapping into a Nicrosil mind without any form of Feruchemy that is the kicker. Even if the Nicrosil mind could grant you all powers there are in the cosmere you would first need to be able to tap Nicrosil and I see no good way to make that work like in the unsealed metalminds unless Brandon just says "well everyone can tap Nicrosil for [whatever reason]" or like you said, giving Scadrials the ability to create awakened objects/robo sprens with intent.

There was no retcon about nicrosil and none is needed.

Normal nicrosilmind can't be tapped by someone who isn't a nicrosil Ferring, even if unkeyed. But Malwish medallions are made differently. They are unsealed metalminds, made by some machine which involves F-duralumin (per WoB). We don't know how they are made but this somehow grant them self-awareness and identity of their own. Yes, in a way this is Awakening, but in a broader sense (Awakening is possible with all forms of investiture, not just Breaths). Basically (my opinion) what medallions are doing is they form a bond with you and grant you Feruchemical abilities stored inside the nicrosil portion through that bond - they are more comparable to Honorblades, which also are self-aware, form a bond with you and give you powers.

Spoiler

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

If you know how to create a Malwish medallion you can make one that would give you powers outside of Scadrial, like Sand Mastery or Surgebinding - you need to have such powers in the first place to be able to store them in the nicrosil portion, and that is the biggest problem. Another problem is that creating a medallion giving you more than 3 powers isn't possible right now, and using 2 medallions at once is also impossible - while you technically could make a medallion giving you all powers (the Bands were like that) they don't know how.

[trav]

15 hours ago, alder24 said:

We don't know how they are made

Exactly. I am aware of all of the rest. WOB included.