How do we know that Hoid is a Feruchemist?

[11thorderknight]

This seems to be a generally accepted opinion, and it may well be true, but I missed the memo on where that information comes from. Could someone enlighten me?

[Windrunner he/him]

Brandon confirmed it for us a while ago!

MIKE COCKRUM
Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

BRANDON SANDERSON
He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.
Source

 
There's also the implication here, although not as strongly that he can use gold Feruchemy.

WOODCHUCK_VOMIT
Less serious: does Hoid have all of his fingers?

BRANDON SANDERSON
Hoid has had fingers chopped off on occasion. I doubt he's kept them around after the new ones grow in.
Souce

 

This also reminded me to put updating the Hoid article on my list of wiki stuff to do. xD

[Swimmingly he/him]

To be fair, if Lopen's arm is any indication, Stormlight or Stormlight-esque abilities powered by other means should work just as well.

[Windrunner he/him]

I'm well aware, but there's no reason to make it more complicated than it is without evidence. If we know Hoid to have Feruchemy, it stands to reason that he's probably using Feruchemy in this instance, because nothing points to it being something else. It's not for sure, but it's more likely. That's why I said it was simply an implication.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I'd also say that the "instant speed" nature of Hoid's healing points to Gold Feruchemy as well.

 

While it's rather heavily implied (from an ignorant perspective, but still there would be nearly 0 drama if this wasn't the case) that Stormlight won't save you from a Shardblade cut to the spine, Hoid isn't worried (“I’d be surprised if that little knife of yours poses me any real threat, Kholin.")
 

Hoid (probably) has Gold Feruchemy:
-Given more weight. Hoid has some instant-speed healing that heals the soul, and so is not afraid of Shardblades (as we saw in WoR's epigraph...). While some other Cosmere healing magics could perhaps grow back your head or your soul, not that many are such that they can be applied to oneself at a moments notice and do the same.
--Source:

Q: If Hoid got beheaded, would his body grow a new head?
A: yes
 
Q: what if Hoid got cut by a shard blade?
A: The Shardblade cuts the soul and what Hoid does heals the soul

 

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Dellexe he/him]

Hmm. This means that if Hoid's OP healing comes from Feruchemy then the Lord Ruler would survive being beheaded and cut by a shardblade, which it's generally accepted (from what I've seen) that he would die from those. Interesting.

[Voidus]

I'd also say that the "instant speed" nature of Hoid's healing points to Gold Feruchemy as well.

 

While it's rather heavily implied (from an ignorant perspective, but still there would be nearly 0 drama if this wasn't the case) that Stormlight won't save you from a Shardblade cut to the spine, Hoid isn't worried (“I’d be surprised if that little knife of yours poses me any real threat, Kholin.")

 

Gold Feruchemy isn't instant either, you could compress the healing to be practically instant but there'd still be a delay, also Stormlight has been used to heal a Shard-severed spine so it's still not more likely to be feruchemy. Personally I don't think that has to do with healing at all and Hoid's just bragging about his general Awesomeness (Not the Lift kind)

[Windrunner he/him]

Gold Feruchemy isn't instant either, you could compress the healing to be practically instant but there'd still be a delay, also Stormlight has been used to heal a Shard-severed spine so it's still not more likely to be feruchemy. Personally I don't think that has to do with healing at all and Hoid's just bragging about his general Awesomeness (Not the Lift kind)

Personally, i wouldn't be surprised to see a Bloodmaker heal a Shardblade wound. The main problem that I see is that none of them seem to offer a way to survive the insta-death of a Shardblade to the spine.

[Quiver he/him]

Personally, i wouldn't be surprised to see a Bloodmaker heal a Shardblade wound. The main problem that I see is that none of them seem to offer a way to survive the insta-death of a Shardblade to the spine.

 

Really, really not related to the topic at hand, but seeing it phrased this way makes me think. A spine-wound being an instant-death attack from a Shardblade reminds me of how removing the Spike between an Inquisitors shoulder blades (ie: one that was in the spine) would kill them.

 

I'm not sure what that means but... I kind of have a feeling that there is something there...

[Kurkistan he/him]

On mobile, so less quotes than usual:

@Kal Dell

Not quite. While Brandon's said that decapitation would kill TLR if you got it all at the same time, I believe the general consensus just now is moreso because be doesn't have a goldmind in his head than for any deeper reason. Miles blows himself up, blows his own brain out with a shotgun, and gets headshot by surprise by Wax: this indicates rather strongly that head damage isn't a silver bullet.

(So far as Miles surviving the surprise headshot goes, I think the running theory for _that_ is that the constant trickle of Health he has on all the time is enough to "keep the circuit open" for a moment so that he can quickly surge in larger increments to offset fatal damage.)

EDIT: There's also some doubt as to whether the WoB about decapitation killing TLR is still valid. To highlight how powerful Feruchemical gold healing is: it's actually a valid question to ask which half of a perfectly bisected gold compounder the soul would stick to. So you can grow back at least half a head from thin air. That same WoB has Brandon implying that TLR was in fact fully decapitated, actually...

 

--

 

And I just spent half an hour not finding the WoB that says that TLR being burned down to a skeleton or beheaded was an exaggeration. :\

@Voidus

Sorry, "Instant speed" was a Magic: The Gathering reference to some ability that you can trigger in response to someone else's actions, in addition to just about any other time. For instance, "Regenerate" is an instant speed ability that saves a creature from being destroyed.

I said that to differentiate Feruchemical gold from, say, AonDor in that it doesn't require any "healing spell" to be cast some time after the damage is done, but rather starts doing its job immediately.

In fact, I'd usually say that both Feruchemical gold and Stormlight heal at "instant" speed. Stormlight is a bit odd, though, in how it requires that "effort" to heal Shardsevering: even Kaladin requires a conscious effort.

----

So far as Nalan using Stormlight to heal Szeth, that's a bundle of assumptions right there. First, for all we know his healing device was from off-world. Second, and more importantly, if Nalan's fabrial was in fact Stormlight-based, then it was almost certainly related to Regrowth, and so quite likely more powerful than internal use of Atormlight. At the very least it doesn't require that "internal effort" we saw from Kaladin.

The key here, though, is that such a fabrial both isn't "instant" (acting more like AonDor or Resealing would, in terms of timing), and doesn't really seem like he kind of thing you can apply to yourself during the split second you'd be not-dead while getting Shardbladed.

---

@Windy

Well I'm glad you aren't surprised.
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#166

---

In general, we should note the similarity between the two answers Brandon's giving: the WoB cited earlier users nearly the same language of 'it heals the soul, so you're fine'. It seems to me, then, that this ability to heal the soul is all that Brandon thinks is necessary to repair being killed by a Shardblade.

 

EDIT 2: On a computer, added in some citations.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Kurkistan

[11thorderknight]

We know from Brandon that in the Cosmere, all healing would work on similar principles; therefore, there really shouldn't be much (if any) practical difference between Feruchemical gold, Regrowth, Stormlight healing, etc. The only ones that might be slightly different would be Sel-based effects, since they all seem to require a certain level of skill/knowledge/specificity. My point is that the fact that Hoid has access to ridiculous healing effects doesn't really tell us much about which magic system he gets it from, since they'll all have the same effects.

 

Back to the original topic: we have Word of Brandon that Hoid uses Feruchemy to know where he has to be. But that's not an ability that's granted by any of the basic Feruchemical metals that we know of. So there's still something unexplained going on here.

 

Also, how would he have gotten access to it? Aside from hemalurgy, we don't know of any way of becoming a Feruchemist. And he certainly seemed able to pop up wherever he needed to be even during the Mistborn series.

Edited July 19, 2014 by 11thorderknight

[Helwar he/him]

Just to clarify, a couple of quotes from "The Final Empire" implying that TLR was beheaded and burned to a skeleton and still came back.

 

This one from Kellsier:

Kelsier nodded. “I searched for two years to find a way to kill him. Men have tried everything—he ignores normal wounds, and decapitation only annoys him. A group of soldiers burned down his inn during one of the early wars. The Lord Ruler walked out as barely more than a skeleton, then healed in a matter of seconds.

This one by TLR himself:

He stepped forward, feet clicking against broken glass. “You think this is the first time someone has tried to kill me, child? I’ve survived burnings and beheadings. I’ve been stabbed and sliced, crushed and dismembered. I was even flayed once, near the beginning.”

So, yeah, beheading wouldn't kill him, and turning him into a walking skeleton wouldn't either. He's wolverine (the actual OP wolverine). And Miles is like that too.

 

My little theory is that he is so used to tap health that his body does it automatically when needed, even without a mind to control it.

 

 

Also, I don't know if i'm breaking any rule by posting these quotes from the book. Please tell me if I do so I'll erase them :S

[Shaggai]

Just to clarify, a couple of quotes from "The Final Empire" implying that TLR was beheaded and burned to a skeleton and still came back.

 

This one from Kellsier:

Kelsier nodded. “I searched for two years to find a way to kill him. Men have tried everything—he ignores normal wounds, and decapitation only annoys him. A group of soldiers burned down his inn during one of the early wars. The Lord Ruler walked out as barely more than a skeleton, then healed in a matter of seconds.

This one by TLR himself:

He stepped forward, feet clicking against broken glass. “You think this is the first time someone has tried to kill me, child? I’ve survived burnings and beheadings. I’ve been stabbed and sliced, crushed and dismembered. I was even flayed once, near the beginning.”

So, yeah, beheading wouldn't kill him, and turning him into a walking skeleton wouldn't either. He's wolverine (the actual OP wolverine). And Miles is like that too.

 

My little theory is that he is so used to tap health that his body does it automatically when needed, even without a mind to control it.

 

 

Also, I don't know if i'm breaking any rule by posting these quotes from the book. Please tell me if I do so I'll erase them :S

 

No rule against it, since this forum doesn't have spoiler rules, but that format is a bit hard to read.

 

Anyway, TLR or the Steel Ministry could easily have made those up. It contributes to the impression of him as a god.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Shaggai