Zea mays Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) So, I'm re-listening to WOK st work, and near the end of hour 6 in book 6, there's a sweet Kholin family moment, everyone's chilling before the high-storm and Navani is showing off her new pain-killer fabrial. " I am particularly proud of this little device, as I had a hand in its construction... ...well it's just an early model, I was working backwards from one of those deadful creations of Longshadows..." The implication here is that this Longshadow, whoever he was, invented a pain inducing fabrial . And several other magical devices of similar charm. Sweet, motherly Navani is reverse-engeneering torture devices invented by a mysterious Rosharan equivalent of an evil mad scientist. I get the distinct feeling we will be learning more about this in future books, meanwile, speculation is always more fun than working anyone has any notion who this Longshadow might have been? Maybe the head of the 'inquisition' at the time of the hierocracy? Edited July 14, 2014 by Zea mays 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I got the impression that Longshadow was simply a brilliant artifabrian who implemented revolutionary concepts with clunky, inelegant designs, something Navani found personally offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zea mays Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Your way of thinking is so much more noble and benevolent than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Besides, how do you get a pain reduction fabrial by working backwards from a pain induction fabrial? They're two different things - and Augmenter vs a Diminisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree with Swimmingly, it sounds more like reverse ingeniering aka. taking something that exsists and use it as a blueprint. That still leaves the question who Longshadow is. The name remembers me of Shadof of self and the Returned name scheme but hey, that´s kind of a go to connection with weird names. I mean how high is the chance of two naltian Returned on Roshar?... Unless Vasher was long enough on Roshar to have multiple aliases and satisfied his inner scholar with some clunky Fabrials. Huh, new random theory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Question: why exactly is it necessary to "work backwards" from a different fabrial like Navani says? What's important in a fabrial should be the captured spren and the faceting of the gemstone (which may relate to the captured spren). "Working backwards" implies there's more to fabrials than that, and that the shape of the metal claw part of the pain-reducing fabrial is also important. Why should that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Well, there's clearly some mechanical component to the fabrials; for example, fabrials all seem to have metal frameworks which regulate the effect. Perhaps the effect only extends a certain distance, or the metal framework has to connect to the output of the fabrial in a certain way. A clunky fabrial might be one that's too heavy, or doesn't use all the possible outputs, or falls off easily. What if, for example, Longshadow's painrial was a device designed to be set into armour and using large gemstones, to create a warrior INCAPABLE OF PAIN MWAHAHAHAHA! The faceting and gem might be the same, but the size, connections, materials, and various other fiddly bits are different. It might be like reverse engineering a handheld flashlight out of a floodlight - the basic components are all there, but in the end, you've got to do a fair amount of mundane engineering to get everything working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Besides, how do you get a pain reduction fabrial by working backwards from a pain induction fabrial? They're two different things - and Augmenter vs a Diminisher. Navani's notes also include the Painknife. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Now that has a number of purposes much more malicious than a magical can of pepper spray. And, really, we don't know anything about Longshadow. I'm going to assume he wasn't the equivalent of a mad scientist in this setting, because I like the idea of a da Vinci better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Now that has a number of purposes much more malicious than a magical can of pepper spray. And, really, we don't know anything about Longshadow. I'm going to assume he wasn't the equivalent of a mad scientist in this setting, because I like the idea of a da Vinci better. I don't know about the pepper spray thing. What sort of thing could you use the painknife for that you couldn't use pepper spray for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 You can use pepper spray for torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wonder if we are going to see any character being tortured with a pain fabrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) The ghostbloods would if anybody would. I can imagine the scene: The torturer gets out a big old tray of sharp and terrifying things, then calmly explains exactly how much pain they'll cause. He then takes out a single, innocent looking fabrial with only a single razor-sharp blade, and explains, in terms of the implements he just described, how much more it will hurt. It takes rather a long time. Edited July 16, 2014 by Swimmingly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 You can use pepper spray for torture. Yes, that was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) The ghostbloods would if anybody would. I can imagine the scene: The torturer gets out a big old tray of sharp and terrifying things, then calmly explains exactly how much pain they'll cause. He then takes out a single, innocent looking fabrial with only a single razor-sharp blade, and explains, in terms of the implements he just described, how much more it will hurt. It takes rather a long time. Oh now I really want to see someone being tortured I wonder how Shallan would deal with the Ghostbloods if they ever decide to torture some poor protagonist Edited July 16, 2014 by maxal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreathTaker Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Oh now I really want to see someone being tortured I wonder how Shallan would deal with the Ghostbloods if they ever decide to torture some poor protagonist She would take it stoically and then gripe about it later. What if Longshadow had a Spren. Think about what Jasnah says about her shadow in the WoR scene where she meets her Spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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