Rand Al'Thor VS The Lord Ruler (spoilers)

[Cstryon he/him]

Below may have spoilers for anyone that hasn't read the Mistborn series, or the Wheel of Time. If you don't want to be spoiled, please stop reading here.

 

 

 

 

Who would win in a death match?

 

For Rand, his strength as he was before his battle of wills with the Dark One. Or "Jesus Rand" as some would call him. He's arguably the strongest male in the One Power. He has deep seeded problems with killing females, though this issue wouldn't apply to this match up. He is able to channel the True Power, but most likely won't because of the effect it will have on him. He could use Bale Fire, but he knows at this point the damage it is causing to the pattern, and most likely won't. He is somewhat mentally ill from the damage the taint did before he cleansed it.

 

The Lord Ruler can compound every metal, and there are hints that he might be able to use Feruchemy to increase his power in Allomancy. His healing, I'd argue is several times more effective than Wolverine. Let's also assume for this battle, The Lord Ruler isn't so apathetic, as he was in Mistborn. He wants to win, and will do what ever he can to win

 

Let's assume The Lord Ruler has very full metalminds, enough that running out will take a long time, even with him using them at high rates. Also he has plenty of metal reserves, and extra vials available.

 

I've seen a topic made for this match up on space battles, and unfortunately, it seems most people weren't considering what is really allowed with compounding.

 

 

Some point to remember for the Lord Ruler. Atium allows him to see what Rand is going to do, even if he can't see the weaves, he can see the action.

 

So what do you guys think?

[Left he/him]

I vote Rand. I mean he has defensive advantage. A weave of air and he should be immune to all attacks from tLR. Should we assume that Rand can't just weave air and grab tLR, say because of the high investiture resistance or something? Or is tLR just dead meat.

[Aonar he/him]

Honestly, Rand is in a whole different weight class from TLR. Rashek can heal insanely well, and see the immediate future with electrum/atium. Rand can warp reality. Say for a moment that Rand won't use any of his more destructive Weaves. I have two weaves for you: Hands of Air, and Deathgates.TLR can't heal if he's not in contact with his metalminds. Instantaneous decapitation is something not even TLR can deal with.

 

The only thing Rashek can do that would even be able to touch Rand would be Rioting/Soothing, but I don't know if Rioting/Soothing is the greatest thing when your target is already marginally insane. If we assume that TLR disrupts weaves because of his Investiture, (Which I really don't think would be the case, given that Vin was still able to affect him. Albeit with the power of a god, but you can't say Rand is really that far down the food chain.) then it's still be a stalemate. Rashek wouldn't be able to touch Rand, and Rand wouldn't be able to kill Rashek. In the end, my bet would be on Rand, no question.

Edited July 12, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[Dellexe he/him]

If we're ignoring CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) and PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) then Rand wins by a mile. One blast of balefire and he's done.

Of course, Rashek has atium, so setting up a shot with balefire would be extremely difficult, but not impossible.

-

Wait a second... Hemalurgy slightly unhinges the mind, and allows people using emotional Allomancy to assume complete control over them. The taint on Saidin unhinges the mind of the user, if we go with elemental compatibility here then one duralumin enhanced soothe and the Lord Ruler could just make Rand kill himself.

-

That probably wouldn't work. But it's the one chance the Lord Ruler has.

[Cstryon he/him]

Now I won't say Rand can't win. But some things we need to consider... Possibilities. TLR can compound everything. And likely is skilled enough with Atium to anticipate most moves that Rand can make. Compound zinc, and steel, and he's a blur. His strength with pushing and pulling might as well be telekinesis. A death gate would be an instant kill but Rand would have to hit him with it, which would be hard for someone who can see a few seconds into the future... And Atium + Duralumin means he can see far into the future. Compounding pewter, plus the grace with burning pewter, add in weight, physical and mental speed, and Atium, Rand would need to make his moves quickly. Power for power, Rand has more for sure. But mixing his powers, and using them strategically, TLR definitely has a chance.

[Left he/him]

Not if he can't hit him. A forcefield of air around Rand with a small gateway inside to provide air and tLR cannot hurt him except with mental allomancy.

[Cstryon he/him]

Agreed. Though considering the strength shown of TLR's emotional allomancy, and Rand already being a bit unstable (I forget if Nyneave healed that) TLR could make a mess of Rand's mind. If even argue that considering how blunt emotional allomancy can be, the battle of wills could be more difficult than Rand's battle with the dark one.... At least more immediately devastating... How long can Rand hold the void when TLR is rioting every emotion he has?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Cstryon

[SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him]

I haven't read tWoT and I don't intend to, but how much metal does Rand Al'Thor wear? Because if he has metal on his back and front and has limited healing then TLR can do a lot of damage because he only has to Compound weight then Push and Pull any metal on his person into his body with Duralumin. Or would that not work?

[Cstryon he/him]

Aside from a sword and maybe other little metallic objects, Rand doesn't really have much metal on him. He doesn't wear armor or anything like that. But LR is so powerful, I'm pretty sure he could push and pull the trace metals in Rand's body. Now one challenge that might apply is the fact that for all intents and purposes, Rand is very invested when holding the one power, which might prevent TLR from pushing or pulling on the metals inside of Rand. But another plus one for TLR is a duralumin fueled Atium burn, and then compounding zinc, steel, and pewter, and just rushing in and finishing Rand. Compounding pewter will not only make him hulk out, but make him a very graceful hulk, and mental and physical speed means he doesn't need time to think out his attack. I'm thinking before Rand has a chance to react, LR would already be on him, giving him a death blow.

Aside from being super powered, Rand can be killed by traditional means. With Atium and physical, mental speed and stupid amounts of super strength, TLR might very well end this fight quickly.

I think the only thing that could put this fight in Rand's favor is TLR has immortality fatigue, and may be to sure of himself to act out immediately.

If you haven't read the wheel of time, you should. I think you might enjoy it. If you don't want to read the whole thing, is recommend at least reading a summary.

[Aonar he/him]

The thing is, atium really doesn't help TLR. He can't see flows. Sure, TLR can move really fast, and he's really strong (although not quite so much as I think you're suggesting. While compounding is extremely powerful, the laws of physics still apply. He moves to fast, or gains too much muscle, he breaks every bone in his body. Plus, if our current understanding of compounding is correct, he can't compound and burn at the same time. He can tap and burn, but not compound). All atium would show him is Rand, standing around, not doing much of anything. Then, a second later, TLR finds himself immobilized, and then get's his head chopped off with a Deathgate. To do what you've described, TLR would have to get within a couple yards of Rand first. That's simply not going to happen. 

 

Duralumin/atium (which we still don't really know how works) would only show him his own demise, I think.

[Lightning he/him]

Rand can be surprised-- his hand was cut off.

 

The Lord Ruler can be surprised-- Vin ripped his bracers off without him knowing it would happen beforehand.

 

So, if either of them didn't take the fight seriously, then either of them could be killed.

 

If both of them took the fight to the highest level of seriousness, the Lord Ruler would rip all the metal out of Rand's body while moving so fast (with the speed metal-minds) that Rand couldn't locate him well enough to catch him with any weaves, while also messing with Rand's mental and physical abilities, while also being able to dodge any danger using atium and luck.  No question the Lord Ruler would win, he'd just finish the fight faster than Rand could even think to begin it.

 

But if we allow the element of surprise, either of them could win.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Lightning

[Topomouse he/him]

I think using emotional allomancy on Rand is a bit risky. In the best case scenario you could probably reduce him to a babbling mess who recites a series of female names in his mind. But you could also push him over the edge and make him deccide to end it all so he just nukes the area away with Balefire.

[Matrim Bloody Cauthon he/him]

one word...............BALEFIRE!!!!!!!!!!

[Voidus]

I think we're all not really thinking this fight through.
Rand prepares a balefire weave, TLR compounds a buttload of luck.
Rand trips and falls on his own balefire, TLR wins the fight and technically he's literally won before it started.

[Topomouse he/him]

I don't know, how much luck do you have to compound in order to overcome the Rand's Ta'veren effect? By that point reality will probably just crash.

[Voidus]

Rand's Taveren effect isn't necessarily good luck though, it's just probability altering.

[Edgedancer he/him]

Rand's Taveren effect isn't necessarily good luck though, it's just probability altering.

Isn´t creating good luck essentially a limited form of probability altering? Making positive outcomes more likely and bad ones less so.

[Voidus]

Isn´t creating good luck essentially a limited form of probability altering? Making positive outcomes more likely and bad ones less so.

Yes, my point was just that it's not simply TLRs luck compounding is cancelled out by Rand's Taveren nature.

[Paraodxical]

I know this conversation is old but I'm going to put my thoughts out anyway. 

I would put my bets on Rand winning with ease. A few reasons for this. One the OP is inherently more flexible that anything the LR has. 

There are a couple of things that so far I haven't seen considered. The first of these is angreal and sa'angreal. If we assume Rand doesn't have the Choaden Kal but does have Callandor then this fight is over in an instant. Rand unaided is able to wield at least 14 different flows, with Callandor how many do you think he could wield? Maybe 20 or more. Even with Atium the LR would probably still be obliterated in a second if Rand went all out and attacked with all of those flows. 

The only thing I can think of to help the LR is being able to push on metal. The metal Rand wears would allow him to do so although I don't think the LR is strong enough to rip metal out of someone's body. He cold certainly push Rand about a bit but how long would he last against all those different attacks. 

I would discounter the LR's emotionally manipulation for one reason. Once Rand has a hold of Saidin then his emotions are pretty much no existent thanks to the void. Compulsion and the like don't work on channellers when they hold the OP.

I would discount Rands taveren from playing a part as it's just too unpredictable and hasn't ever really seemed to help him in battle. 

Overall I reckon Rand has this one. One massive wall of fire and it's all over. I don't think Rand wold escape uninjuried but certainly he would win. 

[Awakened]

Hello all! This is my first post and I know it's an old thread, but I stumbled across this topic after a mistborn reread and have an answer directly from Brandon! I tweeted him while back to ask and he responded:

[Trizee]

On 13.7.2014 at 1:28 AM, KalaDellexe said:

If we're ignoring CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) and PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) then Rand wins by a mile. One blast of balefire and he's done.

Of course, Rashek has atium, so setting up a shot with balefire would be extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Balefire burns you from the pattern backwards in time - meaning you didn't exist in the past, so I'm not so sure that atium could forsee a future in which Rand blasts TLR with balefire, since if that happened TLR wouldn't exist in the present either. Though I do remember it saying somewhere in the WoT that the prophecies can't guarantee that Rand will win the Last Battle since if the dark one wins he'll break the wheel of time and then there won't be a future - so that even if the prophecy says that Rand will win it means nothing. It's possible that balefire works in a similar way, and then maybe atium would work the same way that there are prophecies. Though I'm not sure I worked out the logic of that correctly.

[Draginon he/him]

To me it all depends on when during WOT Rand was pulled from. I'm also going to assume that ta'varen has no affect on people from the Cosmere thanks to the influence of the Shards.

Pretty much if Rand from the first 3 books was pulled in then he's for sure dead since he doesn't have much experience in sword fighting, and he's still using a metal one here so he's at a disadvantage here, and he barely has a grasp on the OP so he wouldn't be able to counteract the Lord Rulers compounding.

If Rand was pulled from book 4-6 he could give the Lord Ruler a good run since he's really getting good at sword fighting and using the OP but not enough to overwhelm him.

If Rand was from books 7-12 then he'd for sure overwhelm the Lord Ruler since his sanity is really slipping by this point and if it was book 12 Rand then Rashek would need to pull everything he's got at once just to survive.

If Rand was from the last two books, well he's fixed himself enough to keep from pulling the big guns immediately but if Rashek goes for the kill then Rand could so beat him and pull out all his metalminds without resorting to balefire.

In other words Rashek can beat Rand from the front half of the series but would struggle to win towards the end. But the rules could change if Investiture allows anyone from the Cosmere to see Weaves, even with Atium, though they'd need to understand what the weaves do first so it would still be a moot point.