Watering my Aetherbound

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I know we are in the wild land of speculation here but I really am curious about this for my own head cannon.

Prasanva is sort of the only example for an Aetherbound we have. He makes creating smaller objects trivial even when much precision and exactness are needed (working glasses are pretty dope). He created a 3D map... but how big was it exactly? And he created a 12 foot tall golem of roseite. 

I am curious how people think this works. Does the water level share some relationship with the mass of the item created? I dont think Brandon made much fuss about how much water was being used other than Prasanva took a Scadrial equivilent to a Camelbak on his adventure. I dont remember him running it dry or even really sipping from it. I do remember him grabbing a jar of Dor and growing a golem. 

Now we have this scenario where it is thought that only a jar of Dor could make that happen. And liquid investiture is surely the best option out there right? 

I dont think so. The ghostbloods have a fairly decent tie to the southerners and I am shocked that Kelsier hasn't provided Twinsoul with a bendalloy medallion. 

But how much is that worth? I would say that pewter feruchemy is a pretty good example of how the magic can remove mass and keep it for later so I dont think that there would be a huge hookup on how fast you could store water.  

The world record soda chug was 1 liter in 6.8 seconds. That is a gallon in under 30 seconds. Our stomachs would usually be the limiting factor but I think that feruchemical storage should solve that issue. I will say people should take a breath but I dont think it is out of reality that someone could drink 3 gallons in 2 minutes if they had a literal bottomless stomach. 45 gallons in an hour. My garden hose spits out 15 gallons a minute so just standing in my house that 45 gallons in an hour should be well and possible. A gallon of water everyday is a solid amount of water and most people dont even get that much. In 1hour Prasanva could store a month and a half worth of water. 

Make him a compounder and that turns into more than a years worth of water once compounded a single time. 

So how much water do you really think it took to create that Golem? I know he grew it via liquid Dor but knowing how fast it could be stored up and then compounded does this make any sense? 

I guess that growing it rapidly might lead to some diminishing returns. I guess that the mass difference between the golem and the 3D map could be hundreds or even thousands of times greater. But with how fast you could store years worth of water via compounding I am really struggling to think that the aetherbound would be better off with a jar of dor than they could be with some access to compounding. 

I'm not saying that this is a viable strategy in terms of how accessible it is. Odds are even liquid jars of investiture will be easier to come by soon than having the ability to make compounders in bulk but I am curious what this says about metalmind capacity and the potential there.  We already know that 1/16th of the bands is worth 2 seconds of sound barrier breaking. What could a jar of Dor offer an Aetherbound that a couple bracers full of water not? 

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I know we are in the wild land of speculation here but I really am curious about this for my own head cannon.

Prasanva is sort of the only example for an Aetherbound we have. He makes creating smaller objects trivial even when much precision and exactness are needed (working glasses are pretty dope). He created a 3D map... but how big was it exactly? And he created a 12 foot tall golem of roseite. 

I am curious how people think this works. Does the water level share some relationship with the mass of the item created? I dont think Brandon made much fuss about how much water was being used other than Prasanva took a Scadrial equivilent to a Camelbak on his adventure. I dont remember him running it dry or even really sipping from it. I do remember him grabbing a jar of Dor and growing a golem. 

Now we have this scenario where it is thought that only a jar of Dor could make that happen. And liquid investiture is surely the best option out there right? 

I dont think so. The ghostbloods have a fairly decent tie to the southerners and I am shocked that Kelsier hasn't provided Twinsoul with a bendalloy medallion. 

But how much is that worth? I would say that pewter feruchemy is a pretty good example of how the magic can remove mass and keep it for later so I dont think that there would be a huge hookup on how fast you could store water.  

The world record soda chug was 1 liter in 6.8 seconds. That is a gallon in under 30 seconds. Our stomachs would usually be the limiting factor but I think that feruchemical storage should solve that issue. I will say people should take a breath but I dont think it is out of reality that someone could drink 3 gallons in 2 minutes if they had a literal bottomless stomach. 45 gallons in an hour. My garden hose spits out 15 gallons a minute so just standing in my house that 45 gallons in an hour should be well and possible. A gallon of water everyday is a solid amount of water and most people dont even get that much. In 1hour Prasanva could store a month and a half worth of water. 

Make him a compounder and that turns into more than a years worth of water once compounded a single time. 

So how much water do you really think it took to create that Golem? I know he grew it via liquid Dor but knowing how fast it could be stored up and then compounded does this make any sense? 

I guess that growing it rapidly might lead to some diminishing returns. I guess that the mass difference between the golem and the 3D map could be hundreds or even thousands of times greater. But with how fast you could store years worth of water via compounding I am really struggling to think that the aetherbound would be better off with a jar of dor than they could be with some access to compounding. 

I'm not saying that this is a viable strategy in terms of how accessible it is. Odds are even liquid jars of investiture will be easier to come by soon than having the ability to make compounders in bulk but I am curious what this says about metalmind capacity and the potential there.  We already know that 1/16th of the bands is worth 2 seconds of sound barrier breaking. What could a jar of Dor offer an Aetherbound that a couple bracers full of water not? 

That's a good idea, but I don't think this is viable for dramatic feats like the golem. The seems to be a fixed rate of maximum growth you can get from water, and the expenditure of said water is most probably proportional. Compounding water would remove the hassle of carrying around water and make it so that an artherbound doesn't even need to worry about managing their water levels beyond tapping at a fixed rate while they create Aethers, but tapping it beyond the amount the Aether actually uses isn't going to help you grow Aethers any faster. It would enter your body and bloat you up, make your blood thinner, and all sorts of other nasty side effects of water intoxication, though I doubt it would be fatal because of the nature of Feruchemy.

I'm pretty sure it was covered on one of the other Aether posts, but Bendalloy Compounding won't help you be any more efficient with your water or boost your rate of growth. You could use it keep unholy amounts of water on you, and it could help you form more Aether in the long run, but something like creating the golem might be beyond your ability to create with water. It might be easier to do it with F-Bendalloy, but still harder than with unkeyed Investiture.

Kelsier may not have gotten Prasanva a Bendalloymind Medallion because one doesn't exist. Medallions only seem to be able to only tap or only store an attribute, we have yet to see one which can do both. Not only that, but it seems like the SoScads can't create Allomantic Medallions, or even roughly half of the 16 Feruchemical ones.

And I doubt Dor will any work better for a Bendalloy Compounder Aetherbound than it would for a regular one since it's utilising the Invesiture itself and not using it to boost water usage. However, if Aetherbound can become Savants, then a Bendalloy Compounder Aetherbound would most likely be able to achieve it first or more strongly, they could probably do more with the Dor than a regualr Aetherbound could.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

35 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's a good idea, but I don't think this is viable for dramatic feats like the golem. The seems to be a fixed rate of maximum growth you can get from water, and the expenditure of said water is most probably proportional. Compounding water would remove the hassle of carrying around water and make it so that an artherbound doesn't even need to worry about managing their water levels beyond tapping at a fixed rate while they create Aethers, but tapping it beyond the amount the Aether actually uses isn't going to help you grow Aethers any faster. It would enter your body and bloat you up, make your blood thinner, and all sorts of other nasty side effects of water intoxication, though I doubt it would be fatal because of the nature of Feruchemy.

I'm pretty sure it was covered on one of the other Aether posts, but Bendalloy Compounding won't help you be any more efficient with your water or boost your rate of growth. You could use it keep unholy amounts of water on you, and it could help you form more Aether in the long run, but something like creating the golem might be beyond your ability to create with water. It might be easier to do it with F-Bendalloy, but still harder than with unkeyed Investiture.

Kelsier may not have gotten Prasanva a Bendalloymind Medallion because one doesn't exist. Medallions only seem to be able to only tap or only store an attribute, we have yet to see one which can do both. Not only that, but it seems like the SoScads can't create Allomantic Medallions, or even roughly half of the 16 Feruchemical ones.

And I doubt Dor will any work better for a Bendalloy Compounder Aetherbound than it would for a regular one since it's utilising the Invesiture itself and not using it to boost water usage. However, if Aetherbound can become Savants, then a Bendalloy Compounder Aetherbound would most likely be able to achieve it first or more strongly, they could probably do more with the Dor than a regualr Aetherbound could.

I don't know that the golem is out of the question for a compounder.  I think that bendalloy compounding is the perfect combo for something like this because it allows both allomancy and feruchemy.  

Even if there is a timing issue where the aetherbound is limited in their ability to grow past a specific rate, the bendalloy bubble will over come that. Not only do they have a nearly infinite source of water to spend on what they make, but they also have the luxury of slowing down time to grow it and make it work.  Initially I was just thinking that faster growth would take exponentially more water in comparison to something gradual and that A bendalloy would allow you to save water by slowing down the growth.  I do think, now, that in addition to all of that you can make changes in combat no other aetherbound could.  

Where I am not sure how it would work is crossing the bendalloy bubble.  I think growing aether in the bubble is the best option and least likely to have unintended consequences.  

It would be interesting to see what happens when so other aethers are being used from in a bubble but the part of them being used is outside the bubble.  

The golem is cool and fun but I am far more interested in the ways to use roseite to enhance things on the DL.  

Roseite linings around bones and limbs. Rosite weapons growing along arms and in hands.  (The ultimate concealed weapons).  Even roseite crystals just along the surface of the skin.  Might be cool for some added durability.  How well it works against certain magic swords is to be determined.  

I would pay money to see the look on a light eyed shardblade users face as he swings into a kandra and his blade stops mid swing on some aluminum truebody... in my mind I like to think that an aetherbound could reproduce this act given enough water to maintain the encasing of their skeletal system to an extent.  

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I don't know that the golem is out of the question for a compounder.  I think that bendalloy compounding is the perfect combo for something like this because it allows both allomancy and feruchemy.  

Even if there is a timing issue where the aetherbound is limited in their ability to grow past a specific rate, the bendalloy bubble will over come that. Not only do they have a nearly infinite source of water to spend on what they make, but they also have the luxury of slowing down time to grow it and make it work.  Initially I was just thinking that faster growth would take exponentially more water in comparison to something gradual and that A bendalloy would allow you to save water by slowing down the growth.  I do think, now, that in addition to all of that you can make changes in combat no other aetherbound could.  

Where I am not sure how it would work is crossing the bendalloy bubble.  I think growing aether in the bubble is the best option and least likely to have unintended consequences.  

It would be interesting to see what happens when so other aethers are being used from in a bubble but the part of them being used is outside the bubble.

I don't mean to say that the golem is beyond a Compounder Aetherbounds abilities, just that it would be far harder to do and maintain without the speed and efficacy of Unkeyed Investiture.

That said, it might not be possible for an Aether to cross a Speed bubble's border. The border tampers with almost all Investiture. It absorbs extra momentum you gain by moving faster in comparison to things outside, you can't Push and Pull metals that are outside while you are inside, etc. Some applications work, like Emotional Allomancy, but those are an exception. Aethers become overpowered when you have this multi-purpose material that you can use while in sped-up time, and since you don't generally use Aether in a way that it could be deflected when leaving the bubble, the easiest way to neutralize it would be to make it be unable to exit the bubble at all. This is just speculation though.

6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The golem is cool and fun but I am far more interested in the ways to use roseite to enhance things on the DL.  

Roseite linings around bones and limbs. Rosite weapons growing along arms and in hands.  (The ultimate concealed weapons).  Even roseite crystals just along the surface of the skin.  Might be cool for some added durability.  How well it works against certain magic swords is to be determined.  

I would pay money to see the look on a light eyed shardblade users face as he swings into a kandra and his blade stops mid swing on some aluminum truebody... in my mind I like to think that an aetherbound could reproduce this act given enough water to maintain the encasing of their skeletal system to an extent.  

I don't know if lining yourself with it will do much unless you layer it on quite thick, and you'd need to constantly feed it water, although that's removed from the equation if you're a Bendalloy Compounder. It would work for Shardblades, though. The current consensus on the other thread is that Roseite is Invested enough to resist a Shardblade at least once before it shatters, so you could use it for the element of surprise. But that's outside the body, on the skin. I don't know whether creating Roseite inside your body is possible, but it would damage your body quite spectacularly in a large variety of ways if you did, depending on where and how exactly you do it.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

16 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I don't mean to say that the golem is beyond a Compounder Aetherbounds abilities, just that it would be far harder to do and maintain without the speed and efficacy of Unkeyed Investiture.

That said, it might not be possible for an Aether to cross a Speed bubble's border. The border tampers with almost all Investiture. It absorbs extra momentum you gain by moving faster in comparison to things outside, you can't Push and Pull metals that are outside while you are inside, etc. Some applications work, like Emotional Allomancy, but those are an exception. Aethers become overpowered when you have this multi-purpose material that you can use while in sped-up time, and since you don't generally use Aether in a way that it could be deflected when leaving the bubble, the easiest way to neutralize it would be to make it be unable to exit the bubble at all. This is just speculation though.

I don't know if lining yourself with it will do much unless you layer it on quite thick, and you'd need to constantly feed it water, although that's removed from the equation if you're a Bendalloy Compounder. It would work for Shardblades, though. The current consensus on the other thread is that Roseite is Invested enough to resist a Shardblade at least once before it shatters, so you could use it for the element of surprise. But that's outside the body, on the skin. I don't know whether creating Roseite inside your body is possible, but it would damage your body quite spectacularly in a large variety of ways if you did, depending on where and how exactly you do it.

Yeah I am sure growing it under all of the soft tissue would be quite an unpleasant experience. As for the bendalloy... with the other aethers I had in mind I am sure it will be messed up more than anything. As for creating a roseite armor and weapons I feel like the bendalloy would be a perfect compliment for it. All of the benefits of growing as much aether as you can fit inside of the bubble while you are safely in the defensive position that is having a speed bubble. Youre enemies are starting up the rotary gun pointed at your position? You can throw up a bubble and grow up a wall of roseite. Not only are the bullets going to deflect randomly but you can really take your time repairing the wall as needed between them crossing the border. You just took a large hit or want to use a different weapon? Again, the bubble affords you the time to recuperate while you decide on any changes to strategy if needed.  I would say a bendalloy compounder with roseite might be more dangerous in a scrap than Wayne even. Wayne had a chance of running out of health. The Aetherbound would likely be able to regrow nearly infinite amounts of armor as it is being damaged and the speed bubbles give as much time as they need. Instead of Wayne popping out of a bubble with another chunk of his gold reserves missing you would have this person coming back out with reset armor and a new weapon style of choice. 

I agree some Aethers would be a bit OP with the bendalloy bubbles being in play but I don't foresee it being the levels of bonkers that we get from swearing oaths. I dont see Aethers as being some massive offensive powerhouses. I see a ton of utility there for sure, but I think the system without some infinite juice hack like compounding is borderline underwhelming and existing more just for added flavor. 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

21 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Yeah I am sure growing it under all of the soft tissue would be quite an unpleasant experience. As for the bendalloy... with the other aethers I had in mind I am sure it will be messed up more than anything. As for creating a roseite armor and weapons I feel like the bendalloy would be a perfect compliment for it. All of the benefits of growing as much aether as you can fit inside of the bubble while you are safely in the defensive position that is having a speed bubble. Youre enemies are starting up the rotary gun pointed at your position? You can throw up a bubble and grow up a wall of roseite. Not only are the bullets going to deflect randomly but you can really take your time repairing the wall as needed between them crossing the border. You just took a large hit or want to use a different weapon? Again, the bubble affords you the time to recuperate while you decide on any changes to strategy if needed.  I would say a bendalloy compounder with roseite might be more dangerous in a scrap than Wayne even. Wayne had a chance of running out of health. The Aetherbound would likely be able to regrow nearly infinite amounts of armor as it is being damaged and the speed bubbles give as much time as they need. Instead of Wayne popping out of a bubble with another chunk of his gold reserves missing you would have this person coming back out with reset armor and a new weapon style of choice. 

I agree some Aethers would be a bit OP with the bendalloy bubbles being in play but I don't foresee it being the levels of bonkers that we get from swearing oaths. I dont see Aethers as being some massive offensive powerhouses. I see a ton of utility there for sure, but I think the system without some infinite juice hack like compounding is borderline underwhelming and existing more just for added flavor. 

I will admit that Aethers in this incarnation are a bit underwhelming, but that's mostly because there are dramatic things they could probably do that we haven't considered. Remember when Tress lifts a whole ship up into the air to protect it from the rain? Imagine a Verdant Aetherbound with Dor, creating massive vines that grab and immobilize people, then worm their way in through their mouths and noses and suffocate them from the inside. Or a Crimson Aetherbound creating red spines and using them like throwing knives, or creating giant lances of red spines to impale someone from a hundred feet away. Or a Sunlight Aetherbound glowing more radiantly than any Knight, producing so much heat they eviscerate everything and everyone in their surroundings. A Zephyr Aetherbound creating bursts of wind that move at speeds so fast they send people sprawling, or flying by propelling themselves upward with an unbroken torrent of air. A Midnight Aetherbound becoming a mini Re-Shephir, creating shapeshifting monsters of black sludge. Even Roseite itself is quite versatile. If Prasanva wasn't focused on escaping but rather killing, could he have trapped enemy soldiers between two walls of Roseite, then caused it to either grow or move and crush the people inside? There are more showy applications the Aethers get when they have access to the Dpr.