Complications with Zephyr Spores (sorry Ann)

[Duxredux]

This line of thought came from another thread, but it seems like it warrants its own discussion. I was looking into what possible levels of ozone could be generated from Zephyr for use as an oxidation agent for spore bullet impact charges, but I'm finding that even the amount in smellable ozone might be creating a host of problems.

Ann says that Zephyr spores give off a smell like lightning, which is one of the things she finds nifty. The characteristic smell of lightning often is the result of ozone forming. The issue with this is that ozone is hazardous. Here's a snippet from the Wikipedia article:

Quote

Ozone's odour is reminiscent of chlorine, and detectable by many people at concentrations of as little as 0.1 ppm in air. Ozone's O₃ structure was determined in 1865. The molecule was later proven to have a bent structure and to be weakly diamagnetic. In standard conditions, ozone is a pale blue gas that condenses at cryogenic temperatures to a dark blue liquid and finally a violet-black solid. Ozone's instability with regard to more common dioxygen is such that both concentrated gas and liquid ozone may decompose explosively at elevated temperatures, physical shock, or fast warming to the boiling point.^[5][6] It is therefore used commercially only in low concentrations.

Ozone is a powerful oxidant (far more so than dioxygen) and has many industrial and consumer applications related to oxidation. This same high oxidizing potential, however, causes ozone to damage mucous and respiratory tissues in animals, and also tissues in plants, above concentrations of about 0.1 ppm. While this makes ozone a potent respiratory hazard and pollutant near ground level, a higher concentration in the ozone layer (from two to eight ppm) is beneficial, preventing damaging UV light from reaching the Earth's surface.

Assuming I'm reading this correctly, if you can smell it, it's probably damaging your lungs (sorry Ann). Because of the nature of the spore seas, rain falling on the Zephyr sea is by definition, sea level and breathable air.

Quote

Chronic ozone exposure

Breathing ozone for periods longer than eight hours at a time for weeks, months or years defines chronic exposure. Numerous studies suggest a serious impact on the health of various populations from this exposure.

One study finds significant positive associations between chronic ozone and all-cause, circulatory, and respiratory mortality with 2%, 3%, and 12% increases in risk per 10 ppb^[91] and report an association (95% CI) of annual ozone and all-cause mortality with a hazard ratio of 1.02 (1.01–1.04), and with cardiovascular mortality of 1.03 (1.01–1.05). A similar study finds similar associations with all-cause mortality and even larger effects for cardiovascular mortality.^[92] An increased risk of mortality from respiratory causes is associated with long-term chronic exposure to ozone.^[93]

Longterm exposure, even at very low levels of ozone causes all sorts of problems (ouch, sorry Ann). An article by PubMed Central found here  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4427716/ also notes "A characteristic property of ozone odor is the fact that it is easily addictive" (ouch, ouch, sorry Ann, but this explains a lot).

I'm not sure on the decomposition rate of ozone at ground level compared to the generation rate of the gasses of the Zephyr sea, but all this together seems to be a substantial concern for residents of the Zephyr sea, particularly for anyone who frequently works directly with Zephyr. It might not be gassing them, but this doesn't seem insignificant. I'm guessing Brandon will try to avoid playing the card he did for Scadrial, "they are just genetically resistant to metal poisoning".

Sorry for everyone that likes Ann, based on this amateur prognosis.

I'm pretty sure the plan for Zephyr is to serve as an emergency air supply for the space age. If the air it generates had hazardous gasses in it, that could cause problems, but not insurmountable ones.  I'd guess a filtration unit should be able to filter the larger trioxygen molecules from the breathable air until it decomposes into dioxygen, so that wouldn't cause issues directly.

Thoughts? Anything I've missed? I'm not an expert on the matter by any means. Presumably the spore cycle that Xisis is studying at the bottom of the Crimson Sea somehow has to account for air generation above sea level... right? If this "smell of lightning" isn't ozone, then what is causing it?

Edited May 28 by Duxredux
clarity

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

This line of thought came from another thread, but it seems like it warrants its own discussion. I was looking into what possible levels of ozone could be generated from Zephyr for use as an oxidation agent for spore bullet impact charges, but I'm finding that even the amount in smellable ozone might be creating a host of problems.

Ann says that Zephyr spores give off a smell like lightning, which is one of the things she finds nifty. The characteristic smell of lightning often is the result of ozone forming. The issue with this is that ozone is hazardous. Here's a snippet from the Wikipedia article:

Assuming I'm reading this correctly, if you can smell it, it's probably damaging your lungs (sorry Ann). Because of the nature of the spore seas, rain falling on the Zephyr sea is by definition, sea level and breathable air.

Longterm exposure, even at very low levels of ozone causes all sorts of problems (ouch, sorry Ann). An article by PubMed Central found here  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4427716/ also notes "A characteristic property of ozone odor is the fact that it is easily addictive" (ouch, ouch, sorry Ann, but this explains a lot).

I'm not sure on the decomposition rate of ozone at ground level compared to the generation rate of the gasses of the Zephyr sea, but all this together seems to be a substantial concern for residents of the Zephyr sea, particularly for anyone who frequently works directly with Zephyr. It might not be gassing them, but this doesn't seem insignificant. I'm guessing Brandon will try to avoid playing the card he did for Scadrial, "they are just genetically resistant to metal poisoning".

Sorry for everyone that likes Ann, based on this amateur prognosis.

I'm pretty sure the plan for Zephyr is to serve as an emergency air supply for the space age. If the air it generates had hazardous gasses in it, that could cause problems, but not insurmountable ones.  I'd guess a filtration unit should be able to filter the larger trioxygen molecules from the breathable air until it decomposes into dioxygen, so that wouldn't cause issues directly.

Thoughts? Anything I've missed? I'm not an expert on the matter by any means. Presumably the spore cycle that Xisis is studying at the bottom of the Crimson Sea somehow has to account for air generation above sea level... right? If this "smell of lightning" isn't ozone, then what is causing it?

Good but concerning post. Poor Ann. But I don't think it is THAT bad. She doesn't work with Zephyr everyday, not to mention for hours a day. She'll be fine.

But on the Zephyr sea this might be the problem - if rain storms weren't more or less stationary. The weather pattern on Lumar is different from Earth's. Rain falls on specific regions and not everywhere. Only on Crimson sea rain is unpredictable and falls everywhere. To add more, Ozone half-life is around 10 minutes close to the ground (or 3 days, I've found different numbers on that). Basically just wait a few hours if you have to go close to a rainy area on a Zephyr sea and you'll be fine.

The same would be true in the space era - activate zephyr and wait a few hours to use it - unless half of your spaceship is missing, you'll be fine. Or air filters, that's even easier.

For Ann, she doesn't work that much with Zephyr, she breathes in only a small amount of it, and will likely be fine. Maybe after a few decades there would be some problems, I don't know, I'm not a medical expert of any sort.

[Duxredux]

@alder24, all fair points. Hopefully for Ann's sake it isn't that bad, but I was looking specifically at low level ozone concentration levels, who know how high they actually are when generated by a spore.

Rain on the Zephyr sea... What would that even look like? Even if the rain falls in known lines, the explosions of air should blast the falling water droplets and Zephyr spores everywhere and create amazing winds and really funky pressure differentials. That sounds terrifying, and ships would probably want to stay well, well clear. I'm surprised that Crimson is the one with unpredictable weather, not Zephyr as I think about it, but then who knows how those rain lines even work.