The fun Nightblood test!

[The Stick]

Okay, I want to see the consensus on which main Sanderson characters would stab themselves with Nightblood. I hope to resolve a character fully every 3 days or so. I think the only character proper to start with is the magnificent psychopathic mistborn we all know and love. I think Kelsier treads the line, and Nightblood would consider him evil. However, Kelsier's self-perception is that he is a good person. I ultimately believe he would not die by Nightblood.

[Argenti he/him]

I'm not sure if Hoid would stab himself, he's definitely done some nasty stuff and caused the death and doom of many people. Whether he views himself as evil? No idea. Dalinar would totally stab himself, but only pre-stormfather. 

[alder24]

On 27.05.2023 at 2:42 PM, The Stick said:

Okay, I want to see the consensus on which main Sanderson characters would stab themselves with Nightblood. I hope to resolve a character fully every 3 days or so. I think the only character proper to start with is the magnificent psychopathic mistborn we all know and love. I think Kelsier treads the line, and Nightblood would consider him evil. However, Kelsier's self-perception is that he is a good person. I ultimately believe he would not die by Nightblood.

There are several factors that would determine this. Firstly, people with strong will or who used to draw Nightblood out would be immune to him. Secondly, the way Nightblood determines who's evil is either by self-perception (if they view themself as evil) or if they want to use the sword for evil purposes, for killing, threatening, or selling it. People with mental conditions would be more susceptible to Nightbloods influence. 

Warbreaker ch 51:

Quote

Denth wrapped up Nightblood securely; Vasher watched, hoping to see the lust appear in Denth’s eyes. Unfortunately, Denth was far too strong-willed to be taken by the sword. He had nearly as much history with it as Vasher did.

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Five

Vivenna Awakes, Bound by Vasher

This chapter—with what happens in the latter part of it—is the most dangerous in the book. Dangerous to me as an author, I mean. I love good plot twists, but I worry about leaving them without proper foreshadowing. I've never done something as drastic as I have in this book, having a group of sympathetic characters turn out to be working for the wrong side. I hope it succeeds, but I know that if it doesn't, readers will be very mad. Nothing is sloppier than a book with unearned changes in character motivation.

But we're not there quite yet. Before that we have the first real interaction between Vivenna and Vasher. He gives her what he likes to think of as the Nightblood test. One nice thing about having a sword that "cannot tempt the hearts of those who are pure" is that when someone like Vivenna touches it, she gets sick. I didn't want Nightblood to come across as a "one ring" knockoff. He doesn't turn people's hearts or corrupt them. However, in order to be able to do his job and fulfill his Command, he needs the ability to determine who is good and who is evil.

This, of course, isn't an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don't think it's a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly.

Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword.

Vivenna passes the test, which surprises Vasher. He thought that she'd be the type who would use Nightblood to kill and destroy. (He doesn't have a high opinion of her, obviously. Of course, that's partially because he's let his temper dictate what he thinks.)

Warbreaker Annotations (Dec. 22, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Travis Gafford

End of [Words of Radiance], Szeth meets Nightblood. Nightblood normally makes people feel very sick as a test. He does not have this. And I'm curious if there's a reason for that other than you didn't want to end your book with Szeth puking in a corner.

Brandon Sanderson

What happens when you take Nightblood is based entirely on what your desire on how to use Nightblood is. If your intent does not align with Nightblood's created Intent, which is kind of a deep, Cosmere sort of thing. But, basically, if you want Nightblood because you can then destroy all of your enemies, you're not gonna match to that Intent. If your desire to use Nightblood is either: "I don't even want to use Nightblood," you're actually gonna be fine; or if your desire to Nightblood is matching what Nightblood's view is... And Szeth is, like, the perfect person, because Szeth only wants to do what he's told, and Nightblood kind of only wants to do what he's told. So there's, like, a perfect alignment. They're both messed up in the same way, and they both view the world in the same way, and it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two. And so, because of that, there was just no reaction. And that should be something that I wanted people to pick up on.

Miscellaneous 2022 (Nov. 28, 2022)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

Warbreaker Annotations (June 22, 2011)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Old Chaps

I love having random little viewpoints like these in books. I don't do them often, usually just once or twice a book. But I was excited to write this one, as Chaps has a very interesting way of thinking. Dance, dance, dance. I didn't plan him into the book specifically; I simply wrote this scene as it arrived and I knew someone had to fetch Nightblood. I'm always pleased when a little glimpse like this gives us such a distinctive feel and flavor for a character, though.

Nightblood is better at communicating with people who are mentally unhinged. He can influence them more easily. Really, Denth, you should have known to toss Nightblood someplace far deeper than the shallow bay.

Warbreaker Annotations (June 7, 2011)

 

Now looking at characters you gave us:

• Kelsier - He certainly doesn't consider himself an evil person, but he has a very strong motivation of killing TLR - if he was given Nightblood in Era 1, you would certainly wanted to use to to kill TLR, which would make him evil in Nightblood's mind and Kelsier would end up killing himself.
  But Era 2 Kelsier is a sliver (which helps resisting Shardic influence - https://wob.coppermind.net/events/482/#e15356), and developed enough (mainly due to Vin and Leras) to be a better person, and would likely be either invested enough and strong minded to resist Nightblood, or wouldn't want to use it at all. Era 2 Kel would be fine.

I went overboard and wrote about EVERY person you listed. I now feel bad for Ruining the fun (heh) and put it all in a spoiler box (I encourage you to check it and discuss if you want):

 

Spoiler

• Yomen - He cares about his people, he wants them to survive and wants to bring back the religion of TLR. He is a good man, caring and even allowed his enemies to enter Fadrex after Koloss attacked. I doubt he wouldn't want to use Nightblood - he isn't even a fighter, he would want to kill with it. I think he would be fine
• TLR - now this is a controversy. I personally don't think he would kill himself. Why? First off, he is highly invested, a sliver, this would grant him strong immunity to Nightblood influence. He also has all he wants, he himself considers himself a god, a good god as he thinks people should be grateful to him. He had all the power, all the wealth, all the Scadrial under his rule. He can kill with Allomancy without even moving from his throne. There is nothing that threatens him. He wouldn't even want to use it to kill Ati (he can't get to him that's for one) as he believes he would use the well and prolong the status quo. He wouldn't want to use Nightblood, and his invested soul would resist him even more (plus a coppercloud). He would be fine.  (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11830)
• Telsin - She is desperate, and this would make her want to use Nightblood to win against Elendel. But her near Avatar status might make her able to resist that, but she also has 4/5 spikes on her, which might damage her soul enough to let Nightblood in.
• Hoid - very invested individual, very strong minded and stable, he would be fine, even if he considers himself an evil person for killing Adonalsium (which I don't think is true). 
• Taravangian - now that's tricky. He was fine. And I think if you gave him Nightblood before the RoW scene, he would be fine too. I'm not sure if he considers himself evil, I doubt it, he knows the things he did were wrong but justified by goal. Even in his RoW planning, he didn't want to use Nightblood himself, but he wanted Szeth to use it against Odium. Taravangian has also a very strong will, even in his most passionate state, he had enough will to kill Rayse. I think he would be fine.
• Sadeas - he was very greedy for a Shardblade, he would want to have a better Shardblade and use it to kill - he would kill himself.
• Amaram - the same as above, he was willing to kill to gain Shardblade, he would want to kill with Nightblood, in the name of Sons of Honor. He would kill himself.
• Rayse - He's a vessel. Very strong minded. No way Nightblood would be able to influence a Shard.
• Bluefingers - he would want to use it for his rebellion, I think he even knows what he wanted to do to Siri and the God-King wasn't ok, was evil (at first he wanted to keep them as hostages) that's why he would kill himself.
• Dilaf - hateful and driven by urge to kill all Elantrians, he would kill himself. 
• Hrathen - he was a good person after all, he didn't came to Elantris to kill, but to convert, he wouldn't want to use Nightblood, he would be fine.
• Dalinar - Dalinar in the past? Blackthorn? He would likely want to use Nightblood to be better at killing and that would make him kill himself - current Dalinar wouldn't, and I think RoW even showed us that he feels weak around Nightblood (not sure). But even Blackthorn might have enough willpower to resist Nightblood (at one point he resisted Thrill and the urge to kill his brother, that might be enough).
• Moash - now that's another controversy. I think he truly believes what he does is right. He even abandoned Shards in fight with Leshwi in favor of a spear. Now he was granted Honorblade. I think he would resist Nightblood, and wouldn't be considered an evil person. But that's under Odium's influence. Without that I'm not sure. I don't know. I think there is a big chance he still wouldn't consider himself evil (he wasn't sorry for killing Teft, only for how it made him feel), wouldn't want to use it or kill with it, and wouldn't kill himself, but also there is a chance he would kill himself. Hard to say.
• Marsh - Currently, while Marsh feels sorry for what he did, I don't think he views himself as an evil person. Spikes would make him susceptible to Nightblood’s influence but a coppercloud would likely be enough to deal with it, if not it wouldn't make him kill himself, he wouldn't want to use Nightblood, nor kill with it. Current Marsh would be fine. But Era 1 Marsh under Ruin control was hating himself for what he was doing - he would certainly consider himself evil in that moment, and if given Nightblood he would want to kill himself (he wanted to kill himself in books) - but Ruin would prevent that. Nightblood wouldn't be able to overcome Shardic control.
• TenSoon - now that's fun, Era 1 TenSoon, specifically pre-Vin TenSoon would want to only follow commands of his masters, like Szeth, he would be perfectly aligned with Nightbloods. He wouldn't kill himself but be as dangerous as Szeth is. Current TenSoon certainly doesn't view himself as an evil person, he is Harmony's Preservation, avoids violence and wouldn't want to kill with it. He would be fine.
• Frost - highly invested, strong minded dragon who doesn't want to intervene. He would be fine.
• Nale - Herald, he sees himself as a just and right man, but doesn't trust his own mind. Might be invested enough to resist it. He was already shown to resist it, or be considered a good person by Nightblood in WoR, when he gave Nightblood to Szeth. He would be fine.

 

You were right, that was fun

Edited May 29, 2023 by alder24

[The Stick]

I agree with most of Alders remarks but some I do call into question. Taravangian, I am not sure, but I think you are right. I specified Rayse as a person, not as a vessel. I think Dilaf's self-perception could save him, although that is debatable. Hrathen would definitely kill himself. Him crushing that city, I think they were called Duradel? I think he is not evil, but he is too hard on himself and would view himself that way. Lastly, Frost I think might. I believe he was in involved in the shattering and regrets it. He would not use it for evil purposes and is ultimately good, but I think it is similar to Hrathen. One more that I just thought of.

TotES character

Spoiler

Xisis?

I still think this will provoke some level of debate. There are always more characters though.

[alder24]

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

I specified Rayse as a person, not as a vessel.

We have no idea who Rayse was as a person, you can't take his current form as he is under Shardic influence. He isn't the way he used to be. Even his coppermind page provides nothing of use to make any prediction.

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

I think Dilaf's self-perception could save him, although that is debatable.

I highly doubt so, it's not just self-perception of being evil, it's the desire to destroy (look at WoBs). He has that a lot.

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

Hrathen would definitely kill himself. Him crushing that city, I think they were called Duradel? I think he is not evil, but he is too hard on himself and would view himself that way.

I admit, I've read Elantris a long time ago and don't remember it well, but I don't think he would, at the time of Elantris he wouldn't want to use Nightblood, nor consider himself evil, even if he had done some regrettable things in his life.

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

Lastly, Frost I think might. I believe he was in involved in the shattering and regrets it. He would not use it for evil purposes and is ultimately good, but I think it is similar to Hrathen.

Just because he regrets it doesn't mean he considers himself evil . 

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

TotES character

  Hide contents

Xisis?

TotES:

Spoiler

Nah. Why? He studies spores and treats his slaves well. Plus like Frost he is a highly invested and strong minded dragon. He would be fine.

Riina on the other hand... She has a strong will which will likely save her, but she likely would want to use it (against Hoid for example). At this point in Cosmere she would be fully aware of Nightblood and could equip herself to prevent him from influencing her. But her strong will will do the job too.