Ishar and Kelsier

[The Stick]

Does Kelsier know about Ishar's work? Does Kelsier think this can help him? Can this help Kelsier? 

I believe this work if bringing Investiture manifestations into the physical realm could help give Kelsier a real body.

[therunner he/him]

Most likely no.
All information Kelsier has from Roshar is via Ghostbloods, and possibly some from Gavilar (since he knows about Thaidakar).
Neither of these know about Ishar and his experiments.

They could possibly learn about it via some other spies they have in Urithiru, but considering Shallan was their main source of more confidential information, and she no longer cooperates, they have limited ways of learning about it.

[The Stick]

I think he likely does not know about this. I am searching WoBs now and Brandon said that Ishar could theoretically help Kelsier. My question is how this could happen. I assume Ishar would need Kelsier right in front of him to do something. However, Kelsier cannot leave Scadrial and Ishar cannot leave the Rosharan system.

[alder24]

13 hours ago, The Stick said:

Does Kelsier know about Ishar's work? Does Kelsier think this can help him? Can this help Kelsier? 

I believe this work if bringing Investiture manifestations into the physical realm could help give Kelsier a real body.

Unlikely. Ishar worked alone, nobody knew about that. Kelek on the other hand was a leader of a very powerful organization, that's why Kel knew about him. And Kelsier already achieved what Ishar is working on:

Spoiler

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

[The Stick]

The question is if the body Kelsier wears is his original body. I do not think it is specified. However, Ishar's work is different because he wants to essentially have the spren fabricate physical bodies. Kelsier is just using a spike as a staple to attach his soul to a body. He cannot turn his Invested cognitive shadow into physical matter as a body. The staple solution does forbid him from doing a couple of cool things like Allomancy.

[alder24]

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

The question is if the body Kelsier wears is his original body. I do not think it is specified.

There are only bones left out of his body. And what is the organism that uses bones to recreate the body, native to Scadrial? You know it - mistwraiths.

Spoiler

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

3 hours ago, The Stick said:

However, Ishar's work is different because he wants to essentially have the spren fabricate physical bodies. Kelsier is just using a spike as a staple to attach his soul to a body. He cannot turn his Invested cognitive shadow into physical matter as a body. The staple solution does forbid him from doing a couple of cool things like Allomancy.

Yes, but unlike Ishar he can use his real bones. Kel would certainly want to know what Ishar is doing.

[The Stick]

I agree. I think if Dalinar told anyone and the Ghostbloods got rumors, our favorite psychopathic Ghostbloods leader would be very eager to send envoys to Roshar. I think both would be happy to help each other. Kelsier could supply him with rare Cosmere artifacts and knowledge that could help the research and Ishar could help give him a normal body which can be an allomancer. However, I can totally see Kelsier wanting to make a few upgrades along the way, if possible. Making himself a Feruchemist and something like Sandmaster as well as Allomancer would be of great interest to him.

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I agree. I think if Dalinar told anyone and the Ghostbloods got rumors, our favorite psychopathic Ghostbloods leader would be very eager to send envoys to Roshar. I think both would be happy to help each other. Kelsier could supply him with rare Cosmere artifacts and knowledge that could help the research and Ishar could help give him a normal body which can be an allomancer. However, I can totally see Kelsier wanting to make a few upgrades along the way, if possible. Making himself a Feruchemist and something like Sandmaster as well as Allomancer would be of great interest to him.

That's not what Kelsier wants. He doesn't want more powers for himself, he wants to give powers for Scadrians, for people, democratize them.

[The Stick]

I think you are wrong there. He does want to democratize powers, but the Kelsier I know would not say no to new powers.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, The Stick said:

I think you are wrong there. He does want to democratize powers, but the Kelsier I know would not say no to new powers.

Then you know the wrong Kelsier because he already refused to take both Ruin and Preservation Shards, when he had a chance, and let go of the Bands hiding them high in the mountain temple. He does want to have Allomancy again, but he isn't driven by this urge, the most important thing for him is to give powers to everybody, make it common.