The State Of The Union

[Aeshdan he/him]

I've always wondered why in the world he didn't drop a lerasium bead or two to keep the mistborn around.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I've always wondered why in the world he didn't drop a lerasium bead or two to keep the mistborn around.

He made Spook into a Mistborn. He might have been able to do more, had he wanted to - evidently, he doesn't feel the need for that kind of power in the world right now.

[fyodor]

He made Spook into a Mistborn. He might have been able to do more, had he wanted to - evidently, he doesn't feel the need for that kind of power in the world right now.

It's kind of a common theme in fantasy-as society becomes more advanced the greater magic kind of fades away and disappears. The elves leave so the age of man can begin, etc.

[name_here]

Making Lerasium costs Sazed. Power going to people being Mistborn is power he can't do anything else with, and also lowers the ratio of Preservation to Ruin in his Shard combo, potentially resulting in him going kill-crazy and destroying all the worlds. Also, Mistborn are capable of mass-murder on a grand scale, and teams of Mistings can do most of the societally useful stuff Mistborn can that does not involve killing people.

[fyodor]

I am not sure about the making of Lerasium weakening Sazed. First, if it's burned, it presumably is dispersed again and available.

Second, I'm not sure about the shards and their natures being weaker as such. I think that Sazed's ability to bring to bear his power might be limited (i.e. to build things, destroy the world, etc), but I don't know that the Preservation shard itself and/or it's ability to influence his personality is affected.

Edited December 30, 2011 by fyodor

[Aeshdan he/him]

Making Lerasium costs Sazed. Power going to people being Mistborn is power he can't do anything else with, and also lowers the ratio of Preservation to Ruin in his Shard combo, potentially resulting in him going kill-crazy and destroying all the worlds. Also, Mistborn are capable of mass-murder on a grand scale, and teams of Mistings can do most of the societally useful stuff Mistborn can that does not involve killing people.

He could always restore the balance by adding a bit more power to the atium-generation pool

[name_here]

I am not sure about the making of Lerasium weakening Sazed. First, if it's burned, it presumably is dispersed again and available.

Lerasium is literally solid power, and when it's burned the power goes into the Mistborn and stays with their descendents instead of returning to Sazed.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

It's kind of a common theme in fantasy-as society becomes more advanced the greater magic kind of fades away and disappears. The elves leave so the age of man can begin, etc.

By an amusing coincidence, I find this to be the worst fantasy theme ever. I am deeply relieved that we know a Mistborn will show up in the Second Trilogy, and that magic will continue to define many parts of society in the third.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[CrazyRioter she/her]

By an amusing coincidence, I find this to be the worst fantasy theme ever. I am deeply relieved that we know a Mistborn will show up in the Second Trilogy, and that magic will continue to define many parts of society in the third.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

I don't like it either, Also Brandon has said that he doesn't much like it, and is writing TSA in part to invert that trope.

[Musicspren he/him]

Lerasium is literally solid power, and when it's burned the power goes into the Mistborn and stays with their descendents instead of returning to Sazed.

This is a good point, and one that would not seem to apply to Atium (which seems to be one-use without any lasting effects continuing to later generations). What might balance the continuing presence of mistings (other than beginning the Pits again), is the continued use of hemalurgy in earrings. True, it's very slight, but it's also potentially permanent (because spikes can be reduced, reused, and recycled), like the presence of allomantic power.

[Windrunner he/him]

Actually atium does have a side affect, we just don't know what it is yet.

28. Does atium have a "side effect", much like how lerasium has a "side effect" in creating Mistborn?

ANSWER: RAFO

I wonder what it does, maybe increasing your connection to Ruin somehow? I've also wondered if burning atium could recharge your Hemalurgic spikes. This might explain why even though Vin removes her earring for long periods of time, it is still strong enough to allow her to pierce copperclouds.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I wonder what it does, maybe increasing your connection to Ruin somehow? I've also wondered if burning atium could recharge your Hemalurgic spikes. This might explain why even though Vin removes her earring for long periods of time, it is still strong enough to allow her to pierce copperclouds.

That... is incredibly clever and solid. I approve.

[Musicspren he/him]

I wonder what it does, maybe increasing your connection to Ruin somehow? I've also wondered if burning atium could recharge your Hemalurgic spikes. This might explain why even though Vin removes her earring for long periods of time, it is still strong enough to allow her to pierce copperclouds.

I had never thought of that, but I really like the idea. My only problem with it is that it seems like a rather...preservative effect for the body of Ruin.

[Windrunner he/him]

I had never thought of that, but I really like the idea. My only problem with it is that it seems like a rather...preservative effect for the body of Ruin.

That is true, the only potential solution I can think of is that it's being used in a magic system that involves Preservation, so maybe that takes dominance over the fact that Atium is of Ruin? Burning atium is after all, the best Allomantic power to Preserve yourself in a fight.

[Arcanist Lupus he/him]

That is true, the only potential solution I can think of is that it's being used in a magic system that involves Preservation, so maybe that takes dominance over the fact that Atium is of Ruin? Burning atium is after all, the best Allomantic power to Preserve yourself in a fight.

Or to Ruin your opponents...

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Or to Ruin your opponents...

Or to Preserve your ability to Ruin your opponents. DEEP!

More seriously, the immediate effects of Atium did always surprise me. I would expect it to disintegrate things, or make you stronger but actually harm you when burned, or something. It does not, which probably indicates something grand and complex we don't understand yet, but it makes perfect sense to me for the side effect of Atium to be increasing the Ruin in your Spiritweb.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Aradel he/him]

Or to Preserve your ability to Ruin your opponents. DEEP!

More seriously, the immediate effects of Atium did always surprise me. I would expect it to disintegrate things, or make you stronger but actually harm you when burned, or something. It does not, which probably indicates something grand and complex we don't understand yet, but it makes perfect sense to me for the side effect of Atium to be increasing the Ruin in your Spiritweb.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

If I remember correctly, Ruin is, in essence, intelligent decay. He was more than willing to strengthen inquisitors in favor of a net loss in the world as a whole. It would make sense that burning atium makes people ridiculously good at killing stuff, and most likely increases blood-lust as well.

*lightbulb*

Straff Venture once presumed that burning Atium was addictive to mistborn, maybe he wasn't completely wrong. Vin was as touched by Preservation as she was by Ruin, and while Zane couldn't be influenced by the offer of more Atium, he certainly used it whenever he expected to be killing.

...

I also note we've gotten off topic.

Um... How do gambling dens ward off chromium ferrings?

Edited January 2, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Aeshdan he/him]

If I remember correctly, Ruin is, in essence, intelligent decay. He was more than willing to strengthen inquisitors in favor of a net loss in the world as a whole. It would make sense that burning atium makes people ridiculously good at killing stuff, and most likely increases blood-lust as well.

*lightbulb*

Straff Venture once presumed that burning Atium was addictive to mistborn, maybe he wasn't completely wrong. Vin was as touched by Preservation as she was by Ruin, and while Zane couldn't be influenced by the offer of more Atium, he certainly used it whenever he expected to be killing.

...

I also note we've gotten off topic.

Um... How do gambling dens ward off chromium ferrings?

Nobody knows about chromnium yet, remember?

[Windrunner he/him]

I think Goradel's Nephew meant in the future of Scadrial. If I had to make a guess I would say metal detectors at the door?

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Alloy of Law times seem to have knowledge of Chromium, but certainly no tech for metal detectors. My guess? The same way they would deal with any cheat: a combination of searching you, throwing you out, and beating you up, done in any combination and any order, should they get too suspicious.

Something I noticed but never mentioned in this thread: Scadrial has had wars in the past 300 years, they've just been between Noble Houses. There's really no reference for how large or long-lasting they might have been. though...

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Musicspren he/him]

I wonder...I know that on the Allomancy poster, it only mentions Chromium and Nicrosil wiping/Duralumin-ing Allomantic reserves. But no one would have tested it on Feruchemical reserves; what if you could wipe (or, with Nicrosil, cause them to surge) someone's Feruchemical storages, a least by a Leecher/Nicro with enough skill.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Really? One of the first things I would do is test it on Feruchemical storage, too.

Since the claim to fame of Feruchemy is how those traits will stay there forever, I doubt this would work, though.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Aeshdan he/him]

Alloy of Law times seem to have knowledge of Chromium, but certainly no tech for metal detectors. My guess? The same way they would deal with any cheat: a combination of searching you, throwing you out, and beating you up, done in any combination and any order, should they get too suspicious.

Something I noticed but never mentioned in this thread: Scadrial has had wars in the past 300 years, they've just been between Noble Houses. There's really no reference for how large or long-lasting they might have been. though...

-- Deus Ex Biotica

There's a quote somewhere were Wax mentions how Saze spoke of two extra metals and they have only found one. This confuses him because it seems to break the rule of 16. What he doesn't know, of course, is that it is atium that is the exception.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Not exactly.

There is a quote where he says that the Words of Founding mention two other metals, but they already know all sixteen, which is confusing ("either Harmony changed the way Allomancy works, somehow, or we never understood it to begin with," he concludes). But he never specifies whether this is Chromium and Nicrosil being mentioned in the Words Of Founding but undiscovered, or Atium and Malatium (which no longer exist outside of Marsh's pocket) being mentioned in the Words, but it's hard to see how they ever could have existed, given the rule of sixteen.

For more discussion on the topic, but no real resolution, see this thread.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Aeshdan he/him]

I am going to bring up the issue of languages. We know that there are at least two languages in AoL times (High Imperial and Common), but are there any others?