The State Of The Union

[Kurkistan he/him]

I am going to bring up the issue of languages. We know that there are at least two languages in AoL times (High Imperial and Common), but are there any others?

As for High Imperial, that seems to have always been a "formal" language reserved exclusively for, well, High Imperial matters.

We all know that High Imperial was a bit of a joke language for us loyal readers, Spook's street-slang elevated to a formal language learned scholars study, so it might be a bit hard to conceptualize how or why Spook would sacrifice his hard-won intelligibility and force everyone else to learn his "language" post-ascension.

My personal theory is that Spook also used High Imperial as a joke, a joke that just about everyone was in on. Something like opening speeches with his unintelligibility as a way to break the tension and get some laughs, as opposed to "I demand that you all learn my nonsensical language!"

As for a "real" language diversifying, the entire population (barring those as-yet-uncontacted Southerners) live in an incredibly small area and spoke the same language for ~1000 years under TLR, so I don't see much diversification happening in just 300 years.

Just so you know, the original intent of that image is more so "shame on you <insert name here> for reviving this long dead thread" than an announcement of intent, although I think I can roll with the new usage.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Aeshdan he/him]

As for High Imperial, that seems to have always been a "formal" language reserved exclusively for, well, High Imperial matters.

We all know that High Imperial was a bit of a joke language for us loyal readers, Spook's street-slang elevated to a formal language learned scholars study, so it might be a bit hard to conceptualize how or why Spook would sacrifice his hard-won intelligibility and force everyone else to learn his "language" post-ascension.

My personal theory is that Spook also used High Imperial as a joke, a joke that just about everyone was in on. Something like opening speeches with his unintelligibility as a way to break the tension and get some laughs, as opposed to "I demand that you all learn my nonsensical language!"

I know all that. My point was merely that High Imperial is a language that people speak, read, and write in AoL times.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I know all that. My point was merely that High Imperial is a language that people speak, read, and write in AoL times.

Since most of it was conjecture, I'd be a bit surprised if you knew it all for a fact.

As far as High Imperial actually being a living language in AoL's time, I got the distinct impression that it was basically the Latin of Scadrial: scholars know enough of it so that they can quote pithy phrases at each other, but no one actually speaks it. Of particular note is how it is described as something only used for old ceremonies and such.

As to why the gunsmith would engrave his plea for help in High Imperial rather than Common, I imagine it was so that any criminal scum who happened to see the engraving would simply assume it was one of those aforementioned pithy phrases--just decorative--rather than a call for help.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Inkthinker]

Correction: I recently came across a reference to "bars", which may be either a currency or a unit of bendalloy.

Notes, bars, and coppers. I think.

I believe the notes are paper bills that can be traded for metal at a bank (as classic bank notes were tradable for gold or silver). Not sure what the bars are made of. Not sure if coppers are actually made of copper.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Since most of it was conjecture, I'd be a bit surprised if you knew it all for a fact.

As far as High Imperial actually being a living language in AoL's time, I got the distinct impression that it was basically the Latin of Scadrial: scholars know enough of it so that they can quote pithy phrases at each other, but no one actually speaks it. Of particular note is how it is described as something only used for old ceremonies and such.

As to why the gunsmith would engrave his plea for help in High Imperial rather than Common, I imagine it was so that any criminal scum who happened to see the engraving would simply assume it was one of those aforementioned pithy phrases--just decorative--rather than a call for help.

We seem to be talking past each other a bit. I am saying that High Imperial is like Latin as opposed to being like Ancient Egyptian. You seem to be saying that High Imperial is like Latin as opposed to being like English or French.

[Kurkistan he/him]

We seem to be talking past each other a bit. I am saying that High Imperial is like Latin as opposed to being like Ancient Egyptian. You seem to be saying that High Imperial is like Latin as opposed to being like English or French.

Ah. That makes much more sense. Sorry for misunderstanding you. I agree with your point, then.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner he/him]

Alright, I'm resurrecting this topic because some new information has come to light about society during Alloy of Law, thanks to Inkthinker, also known as Ben McSweeney. He's done some truly excellent artwork for Mistborn and the Stormlight Archive. Because he works with Brandon he knows things about the world of Scadrial not in the published books. He recently had a conversation on Reddit where he explained a lot about how the system of government and other parts of society of Alloy of Law work. So here it is. It's really of great information which should be fun to discuss in context with the rest of the things we've figured out in this topic. Enjoy!

[Riddlesinthedark he/him]

Thread necromancy

Actually, the Skaa were quite willing to run back to the nobility when things got bad and confusing back in the Mistborn trilogy, too, but they were raised under that system. By this point, that is no longer true.

To be fair, Western Expansion allowed for the rise of the robber baron, with train moguls, mining companies, and, of course, John D. Rockefeller getting on top of developing markets and exploiting them. It might stretch credibility a little to assume that in Alloy of Law, these entrepreneurs are invariably in the nobility (the opposite happened in America), but then, maybe that's not true - Steris mentions that her family is filthy rich but not respected by the nobility, and her father has much rougher manners than most nobles, so they seem like the Noveau Riche to me.

As for expansion outside the Basin, as I mentioned above, are there any natural resources out there? At all? It's not clear.

In any event, I am not trying to critique the worldbuilding of the Alloy Of Law, just to understand what has been built.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

There were plenty of Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, and Roosevelts mixed in there as well, from the old Dutch families of New York City.

I don't find the centrality of Elendel dwarfing the countryside in population odd, they firmly have first Industrial Revolution tech starting out(firmly Second now), and all roads/canals literally lead straight there.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Voldy

[Aeshdan he/him]

I think we have here a pretty stable system of the aristocracy (the noble houses with their social and Allomantic standing, as well as control of the infrastructure. Example: Ladrian), the bourgeoisie (families with lots of capital but few solid assets. Example: Harms), and the proletariat/pesantry (the innumerable workers who neither have nor really want power or wealth. Example: Bilg.)

[Inkthinker]

Please be careful about taking anything I say as utterly canon, as I may be easily wrong about anything. Peter and (of course) Brandon are much more reliable sources. I'm just a concept-monkey, and I'm really supposed to know better than to speak out of turn.

Although I'm fairly certain I was right about what I wrote there (or I wouldn't have written it)... it's nothing you wouldn't work out from reading the novel and the broadsheets. We know there's unions and parliamentary parties in some sort of voting democracy just by reading the news articles and the ads.

I was wrong when I wrote about there not being anyone of pure skaa or Terris lineage (which makes sense, some people would have an ancestry almost purely one or the other), for instance.

All things considered, it's probably better if I speak less in general. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak authoritatively, but I know (or I think I know) just enough to make a mess of things.

Soooo... yeah.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Inkthinker