20140616 - Mandamon - Garden of the Gods, Ch2

[Mandamon he/him]

Chapter the second:

Previously, Kisare and her sister Belili, both slaves, found a buried box filled with potentially magical seeds.  They decide to escape the plantation and slavery and look for their fortune in the wide world.

 

For those who reviewed last time, I've still got the capitalized fruit names in here, as I haven't found a clever solution yet.  But I will replace them eventually.  For now feel free to mentally substitute what you wish.

 

As always, I'm looking for comments on plot, setting, characters, and magic system, and especially how the dynamic between the sisters works from Belili's POV.

 

Thanks!

[Asmodemon he/him]

Overall I enjoyed reading this chapter. What I liked was that the sisters are doing something proactive, even though it’s such a spur of the moment thing that it should be doomed to fail (which would be a nice source of conflict and drama for them) yet doesn’t (at least not yet). I also liked the interaction between them, they really complement each other well.

 

That said, there are also some things that didn’t work quite as well for me. Some of these I also remarked upon in the last chapter.

 

Easy life: I still have the feeling that the lives the slaves live in this plantation are too easy, especially now that we know that the previous mistress of the place gave the girls some education. By the way people talk and act I can’t tell the difference between a noble and a slave.

 

Other examples include the fact that, aside from a token fear in the last chapter, the sisters aren’t averse to escaping at all.

 

A slave like Tia (who doesn’t seem very bright) can bribe guards, rat out her fellow slaves, and come out on top without repercussions (or has she lost fingers too?).

 

There are no fences even though a plantation with magic fruit would be a target to thieves. And apparently slaves don’t want to escape from the place.

 

It doesn’t ring true to me.

 

Tia: I didn’t like Tia’s brief appearance. She’s the cliché annoying fellow slave who’ll betray anyone to get ahead. The description alone is also needlessly antagonistic: “Tia had a small, upturned nose, giving her pale face a mean quality.”

 

Her whole point of being in that scene is superfluous. There are other ways to show that Belili has magic, but none as easy as this. There aren’t any consequences to the confrontation. The girls aren’t delayed by her being there, the scene didn’t have real tension (simply because the whole of it reads rather like a cliché), and aside from showing Belili has magic none of the POV characters are changed by the scene. The guards also aren’t really alerted to the escape any sooner than could otherwise be the case.

 

Now, things might be different if Belili had killed her instead – that would have created a source of conflict between the sisters, since Kisa wanted Belili to stop. Belili would have a death on her conscience, another source of conflict, since other than being a slave and on the run the sisters don’t really have a conflict.

 

Hair-colour: It’s great hearing more about the magic system, but something felt a little contradictory about the various shades. How do you define nearly brown hair, because now it seems that brown hair can be both blond (non-magical) and not blond (magical)?

 

Noble savage: The noble savage/native, whom apparently aren’t often seen, speaks the language very well. It seems that someone taught him. I’m not sure what to think about this character yet, he seems remarkably modern in his ideas about freedom and his magic is very advanced. The moment he’s described as having purple hair and with the dogs coming you know that he’s going to do something with his magic and that it’s going to be powerful. That kind of sapped the tension.  

 

Hunting: Interesting that the slaves can go hunting. Are they allowed to do this (limited to the plantation, or outside with supervision) or is it something they do covertly?

[jagabond]

I'm a bit torn. We learn a few interesting worldbuilding details about life as a slave, and yet the girls have escaped that life far too easily. I'm not a grimdark kind of guy, but I agree with Asmodemon: these girls do not seem like slaves. The dude with the purple hair is introduced as an Other to the girls, but maybe the girls could be the unusual ones, and he's part of a normal, functioning world? Just an idea.

 

What was the big secret behind why the guards weren't showing up? Was someone helping them escape, was it the fruit? Or did they not show up because the plot needed them to not show up? Benefit of the doubt implies the noble masters will have some kind of vengeance, otherwise you could turn the plantation into the girls living with a crappy relative and no major change. I was hoping for a bigger struggle, or a climactic scene to say farewell to what I imagine would be a source of enormous anxiety to them.

 

Part of me is expecting that this new guy will take them somewhere and it turns out to be a bleak situation, or the work they have to do is totally out of their depth, because they haven't much struggled yet. But I don't have a good grasp of what that depth is; I don't know their level of competence.

 

Critical as I am, I like the story. I like the world, and the magic is cool with some great nuances...but I'm not quite as immersed as I'd like to be. I will definitely keep reading, because the characters are good and I'm curious to see where they go. But even if their destination is solid, the first steps of their journey are a little too easy for me to feel scared for them, and thus I'm not cheering them on so much as just watching.

[manaheim]

This might just be me, but I found myself distracted by a fair number of "telling" sections, where you would try to fill the reader in on various bits of backstory that may or may not be immediately relevant. Each of these pretty much put the brakes on the story for me and totally threw me out, which was dissapointing because I really LOVE what's going on with the girls. Very interesting stuff, good conflict with the nasty girl, cool funky magic system, etc.

 

A couple examples:

 

"All blonds had their hair bleached as soon as they were born to mask any potential
magic they might have. But Belili's mother had always told her she was special. She died when Kisa
was born, and though Belili had been only five at the time, she still remembered her mother's words.
Now she knew why. She must have a streak of brown in her hair, somewhere. Like Aricaba-Ata's new
wife, brown hair would let her control earth while tasting the juice of an Apple."

^ This is another strong telling section that really breaks up the action of the story.


"Despite the scuffle, the guards were still at their posts. Why? There had been noise, and
usually the guards were quick to catch and beat any slave out of bounds."

^ Another.
 

There were various other minor bits here and there, like I couldn't figure out how/why a blonde would be bleaching their hair (since they're already blonde?) but, for me, the biggest issue are the sections that were telling me rather than showing (or simply not bothering).

 

It's best if you can show us what the characters think, do, and know from their speech and behavior and let the reader begin to develop an understanding about who they are from little bits that they pickup.

 

Still, very interesting and an enjoyable read.

[andyk he/him]

I'm still enjoying this. It's an unusual enough situation and setting to keep me interested, and generally pretty well written.

 

That said, I wouldn't be much help if I didn't find a couple of things worth changing, so...

 

Like Manaheim, I found the explanations of background things like the hair colour slavery and the magic a bit over-stated. I suggest looking at the places where you've got exposition either in dialogue or in other text and consider whether, if you cut off part of it, it would still get the idea across. If you can do that then I think you'll have stronger world building that feels more like showing and less like telling, and where readers will feel smarter for recognising what you mean.

 

I also agree that both the lives of the slaves and the escape attempt feel a little too easy. The lack of fences or guards, the talk of going off hunting when they were supposedly being kept in terrible servitude - it doesn't quite fit.

 

I thought you could have got more interesting conflict out of their relationship with the hunter. He gives in pretty quickly to them following him, when it might be in his better interest to send them packing in another direction to draw off the hunt. If they had to struggle more to get his help and acceptance that might make the scene more exciting.

[Mandamon he/him]

Thanks again for the feedback!

So...we've learned that Mandamon does not do slaves well.  

I think I was so interested in what happens to Belili and Kisare after they got off the plantation I didn't have enough lead in to life on the plantation.  I'll probably include another chapter up front detailing more of slave life (and probably do some more research on the subject).

Thanks also for the details on the guards, Tia, and "telling."  Need to tighten those points up.

 

I may submit one more chapter next week, because it sort of gets to the main plot of the story, but after that I'm going to do some rework and more writing with all your notes.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Mandamon

[Robinski he/him]

I like the sisters’ interaction, but I find it a bit inconsistent. I might have to read Chapter 1 again, but I felt Kisa’s perception of her sister’s characters and Belili’s internal P.O.V. were too far apart. Rather than being flighty and annoying – as portrayed in Chapter 1, I thought Belili came across as resourceful and decisive in this chapter. I'm not convinced that Kisa’s view of her sister could be that different from apparent reality.

 

As noted below, and I'm probably stating the obvious, but I think that the chapter would benefit greatly from a revision, looking at dialogue in particular and a certain amount of telling-not-showing (see I'm not alone there).

 

I found the nature magic practiced by the indigene effective, his easy confidence with it and obvious power, and the amazed reaction of sisters. I might have been more effective if we had seen a bit more magic practiced in the plantation, and perhaps been able to compare with the master having to work harder to achieve less. That’s a minor quibble. I'm enjoying the magic and I think a bit of tidying up (e.g. terminology) would make it interesting and effective.

 

I understand the difficulty in dealing with the nomenclature. What if all fruit was magical, and there was no ‘normal’ fruit. Therefore, whenever fruit makes an appearance it is automatically magical. I haven’t thought that through in any depth, I’ll be honest, maybe it’s too much for the reader to swallow (sorry!!!).

 

The others make some good points, no point in me duplicating overly. I will say I expected them to be on the plantation longer, agree with the Tia comments and expected the security to be way stronger.

 

Still looking forward to reading more.

 

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(Original comments)

 

Page 1 – If it’s so obvious to Belili that it’s Tia who has discovered them, surely it’s obvious to Kisa, so why the need to speak it out load?

 

Page 2 – I thought “Please! I’ll do anything.” was a bit melodramatic, but Belili swallowing the Fruit was surprising, but inevitable, I suppose, nicely in character for her.

 

Page 3 – Interesting to discover it’s not the whole Fruit that’s magical, but just the juice. So presumably, one could keep a flask or vial of juice for convenience, although perhaps it has to come from the original Fruit without prior processing, interesting.

 

I'm finding the dialogue a bit awkward in places, as noted before, and “Let us leave.” and “We must doubly do so.” Kisa is very well spoken for a slave. The absence of contractions makes her sound educated, which seems doubtful given what we’ve heard so far about the society.

 

Page 4 – The guards are still at their posts, and yet shortly after they are going in opposite directions. Also, I was surprised how apparently easily bribed the guards seem to be to go against the orders of an apparently harsh and powerful master, maybe there is more to that than I'm seeing, as is hinted at in the amount of influence Tia seems to have.

 

Are the guards standing close to them? They must be if they could look at them. Also, I didn’t have a good sense that they were leaving the plantation at this point – and then suddenly they seem to be up in the mountains with no impression of effort to get there – I felt disoriented at this point, or are they already in the mountains?

 

And what rendezvous is Belili thinking about? Are we to presume that she was going that evening to make a trade? I don’t think it’s clear that’s what her intention was before she discovered the two, or maybe it wasn’t and it’s that thread that’s unclear to me.

 

Is the wager referring to Belili taking the Apple? To me that would be a gamble.

 

Page 5 – I see you refer to their education here, but I still feel the dialogue is too formal. I don’t think people would speak that way in practice, especially not in urgent and/or stressful situations, like being on the run.

 

Page 6 – I not sure I agree with the logic that the master would search the plantation first, not that he wouldn’t search it, but if he has any number of men, would he not do both at the same time? If the guards saw them, and were bribed by Tia, would they not go to Tia’s aid, rousing her to tell her tale and set the pursuit?

 

Page 7 – I feel there’s some telling going on, some stating the obvious, in places. ‘Kisa silently shook her head, holding a finger up for silence.’ for example. Shaking the head is implicitly silent, and putting a finger to the lips (clearer than saying ‘holding up a finger’, I think) is obviously a call for silence, no need to state it.

 

Page 8 – I'm getting that sense of maid-and-butler dialogue from the conversation between the sisters after the hunter has killed the deer. Also, if he’s any kind of descent hunter, presumably he can hear them. I don’t get much sense that they are whispering.

 

Page 9 – I think Kisa not having seen this before would be better in thought, why would she say it, her sister would know. Also, not sure it’s a contradiction, that would be a statement of the opposite, would it not?

 

Page 10 – I like the man’s change in tone, showing an interest in their situation then telling them to go away.

 

Page 13 - Belili noted the use of "our" instead of "your." – Show don’t tell, let the reader notice that. I suppose the down side is that some readers won’t pick it up, and that’s what leads us amateurs to telling not showing sometimes, but as someone on here reminded me, trust your readers, they’re smarter than you think!!

[jParker]

Like some of the others have hit on, this chapter is pretty interesting, but is very, very raw. Character interactions are superficial, more of a way to get us to the next big plot point.

 

While it's nice to see the differing perceptions of the two sisters (it kind of reminds me of early Mat and Perrin in The Wheel of Time), they don't feel very fleshed out, especially not after, in Chapter Two, one of them discovers she has magical powers. This feels, to me, extremely cheap and at best, a way to showcase the magic system, more likely a reserve Deus ex Machina (since the abilities and limitations of the powers have not been very clearly illuminated, Sanderson's Law definitely needs to be in effect).

 

And just like everyone else, I'm really hoping the new guy is a wild card, not some cliched fantasy archetype. I really want to see the consequences of each and every action. Why is wasting Fruit so abominable? Surely not just for economic reasons. How does Kisa know so much about the world? Why do field-slaves know how to read?

 

However, because I can't just give negative feedback, I had an idea for why Apple/apple might be okay. Heretofore, we've assumed that they're speaking English, or a fantastical variant of it. A common and reasonable assumption. But what if Herbert rules are in play? That the language is decidedly not English and that the word Apple is not the same as apple, when (at least) spoken. Just a thought.

[Mandamon he/him]

Thanks Robinksi and jParker.  Good feedback, positive and negative.  Good ideas about the magic system.  There is scarcity built in with the Fruit, but I'm not sure it's coming across clearly.  At this tech level, they don't refrigerators, so using the magical fruit before it spoils is a necessity, plus certain fruit types are only available at certain times of the year.

 

I'm trying to avoid the "Noble Savage" trope, but not completely sure I've succeeded...

 

I submitted this a lot earlier in the process than I usually do, more to get a feeling for the story as a whole.  Thanks for reading around and pointing out the plot holes!