Unraveling the Secrets of F-Atium

[Koloss17 She/They]

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It would not be promoting cell growth, but Investiture would be becoming new cells. Just to be clear, Investiture isn't promoting your body to make more cells, but becoming cells itself.

This is the bit you convinced me to go back on since it wouldn't make sense for storing to be unable to affect your mass but for tapping to be able to. As I said earlier, this would mean that Investiture will become new body mass for you for the duration of storing, using your body's current state as a baseline. The reason I didn't think this could happen before was due to F-Pewter, and how Feruchemical powers don't encroach on one another (i.e tapping strength won't make you able to move any faster, being able to move while tapping weight doesn't constitute any net gain of power), but for it to stay internally consistent, you should be able to grow, and thus extra mass would be required. But since the lack of hair or nail growth suggests that your body isn't being induced to increase its metabolic rate to enable said increase in mass, Investiture would have to become the new mass, like with Pewter.

...

Honestly though, on second thought, it doesn't make sense for extra Investiture to be drawn to create new body mass. Where would it be coming from, given that Feruchemy is internal? I think it's more likely that just like how storing isolates and boosts only the aging processes of your body, it would also isolate your ability to create new mass and speed that up, without increasing hair or nail growth. In that case, what I said at the start of this post is wrong, and it is cell growth being magically stimulated. How or why that would exclude hair and nail growth is beyond me, but that seems to fit better than the 'Investiture becoming mass' idea, even though we know it's possible through F-Petwer.

So here’s a good point that a pal just brought up: what I think you’re saying is that when you’re storing, mass is being magically created. And when you’re tapping, mass is being magically removed. But that’s not how Feruchemy works, does it? Those should be swapped. Take F-pewter, as that’s what we’re basing this current hypothesis on. You are magically transforming muscle mass into investiture to be stored in the metalmind, and then having that stored investiture be released into mass afterwards.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

33 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So here’s a good point that a pal just brought up: what I think you’re saying is that when you’re storing, mass is being magically created. And when you’re tapping, mass is being magically removed. But that’s not how Feruchemy works, does it? Those should be swapped. Take F-pewter, as that’s what we’re basing this current hypothesis on. You are magically transforming muscle mass into investiture to be stored in the metalmind, and then having that stored investiture be released into mass afterwards.

That is indeed what I was previously saying, and that's what I addressed as not making sense in the last paragraph of my post just above

[Koloss17 She/They]

22 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That is indeed what I was previously saying, and that's what I addressed as not making sense in the last paragraph of my post just above

So what exactly is your current theory? I think I’ve gotten lost in your theoristic contempations .

Edited June 11, 2023 by Koloss17

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

6 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So what exactly is your current theory? I think I’ve gotten lost in your theoristic contempations .

I am a bit inclined to ramble

Currently, It's exactly the same as what it used to be. Storing isolates aging processes and accolades them. The only difference is, instead of pulling more Investiture from somewhere to gain extra mass, storing also isolates the growth of body and muscle mass and accelerates that too, without accelerating any other metabolic processes, or things like hair or nail growth. The pack of hair and nail growth is why I thought this couldn't be the case, but just as it isolates aging processes, I assume it could isolate the singular growth process too.

[Duxredux he/him]

I'm not sure where the line is, but we also just have to accept that Feruchemy is a fictional magic and at some point it will extend into a branch of science that either Brandon hasn't studied or that the answer will boil down to "Brandon wanted to tell a cool story." Dig too deeply and it will break down. I don't know if we've hit that line yet, because Brandon dives really deeply into stuff I sometimes have a hard time following, but there's a limit to Brandon's genius in creating an entire universe with magical laws.

I don't intend to stifle the discussion,  really cool insights can still be gained, but we haven't ever seen F-Atium during storage, only tapped by compounders. It might be wise to mentally draw a line at which point we try to ask Brandon or Peter in a Q&A and find out what it is semi-officially, or get RAFO'd while trying. Like... page 3 or 4 and still no one feeling closer to a solid answer.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 hours ago, Duxredux said:

I'm not sure where the line is, but we also just have to accept that Feruchemy is a fictional magic and at some point it will extend into a branch of science that either Brandon hasn't studied or that the answer will boil down to "Brandon wanted to tell a cool story." Dig too deeply and it will break down. I don't know if we've hit that line yet, because Brandon dives really deeply into stuff I sometimes have a hard time following, but there's a limit to Brandon's genius in creating an entire universe with magical laws.

I don't intend to stifle the discussion,  really cool insights can still be gained, but we haven't ever seen F-Atium during storage, only tapped by compounders. It might be wise to mentally draw a line at which point we try to ask Brandon or Peter in a Q&A and find out what it is semi-officially, or get RAFO'd while trying. Like... page 3 or 4 and still no one feeling closer to a solid answer.

Most avenues of inquiry end up in dead ends, I very much doubt that Brandon has thought out even half of what we discuss here. After all, we're a whole forum of observant fans who can pick a minor detail and run with it, Brandon is only one person with a limited team who need to manage all of it. The fun of these forums for me is to see how far we can take a fictional creation and still have it make sense. With how many smart people are on here, I feel like we can cobble together an explanation for most things in the Cosmere, even if they aren't true, even if I know it probably isn't true

[Koloss17 She/They]

15 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I am a bit inclined to ramble

Currently, It's exactly the same as what it used to be. Storing isolates aging processes and accolades them. The only difference is, instead of pulling more Investiture from somewhere to gain extra mass, storing also isolates the growth of body and muscle mass and accelerates that too, without accelerating any other metabolic processes, or things like hair or nail growth. The pack of hair and nail growth is why I thought this couldn't be the case, but just as it isolates aging processes, I assume it could isolate the singular growth process too.

The problem that I see is that depending on where you currently are in life, storing will either lose you mass or gain you mass, and when storing, you’re either gaining or losing mass. The inconsistency is what gets me. I mean, maybe manipulating both growth and aging processes would do it, but lower growth rates wouldn’t exactly age you backwards.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

The problem that I see is that depending on where you currently are in life, storing will either lose you mass or gain you mass, and when storing, you’re either gaining or losing mass. The inconsistency is what gets me. I mean, maybe manipulating both growth and aging processes would do it, but lower growth rates wouldn’t exactly age you backwards.

Well, it wouldn't be lowering them, but reversing them

[Koloss17 She/They]

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Well, it wouldn't be lowering them, but reversing them

…but wouldn’t that affect cognition? Which would, naturally, affect the cognitive realm?

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

48 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

…but wouldn’t that affect cognition? Which would, naturally, affect the cognitive realm?

I asked this very thing earlier, but nobody responded. Just to be clear, I was asking whether aging the physical structure of the brain up or down would affect cognition, so if you mean something else, please correct me.

Anyway, what I'm assuming at the moment is that due to the magical nature of the changes, your spiritweb and Cognitive Aspect are keeping track of what your mental capacities are, so aging yourself up or down as much as possible should not affect your ability to think at all, despite the physical changes to your mind, just like how tapping Iron doesn't give you a strength boost, or how tapping Pewter can't give you speed.

[Koloss17 She/They]

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I asked this very thing earlier, but nobody responded. Just to be clear, I was asking whether aging the physical structure of the brain up or down would affect cognition, so if you mean something else, please correct me.

Anyway, what I'm assuming at the moment is that due to the magical nature of the changes, your spiritweb and Cognitive Aspect are keeping track of what your mental capacities are, so aging yourself up or down as much as possible should not affect your ability to think at all, despite the physical changes to your mind, just like how tapping Iron doesn't give you a strength boost, or how tapping Pewter can't give you speed.

Hmmmmm. Not a bad argument.

 

After some consideration, I think your theory is plausible. Do I like my theory that it’s adjusting the body to past and future cognitive identities a bit better? Yeah, I kinda do. However, both seem to be within the realm of plausible.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

Just now, Koloss17 said:

Hmmmmm. Not a bad argument.

 

After some consideration, I think your theory is plausible. Do I like my theory that it’s adjusting the body to past and future cognitive identities a bit better? Yeah, I kinda do. However, both seem to be within the realm of plausible.

I personally like your theory more. The temporal metals really need more love than they get, and while that's partially resolved with Wayne and Marasi, things like Gold and Electrum are still left underappreciated. However, as much as I'd like for time shenaniganry to be the case, based on what we see and what Brandon says, that just doesn't seem to be what going on here, even though an ability like that should be technically possible in the Cosmere.