SP3 magic system maybe?

[Argenti he/him]

So I was reading through WOBs and found this one.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

I just outlined a non-genetic magic system that I think is kind of interesting. I don't know if I'll ever get to write this book; I outline a lot of books that I don't get to write. But it was a really interesting idea for a magic system where a child was chosen by society when they were a newborn to gain the powers. You know, kind of for the good of society. And being one of these people, instead, I thought... Like I said, the implications are really interesting for that narrative story, is that you're forced, even from childhood you were chosen by everybody. You weren't born to it; but how do you choose a newborn? They just chose one, and now you've gotta live the rest of your life (Hope you picked a good one!) dealing with these implications. That's been very interesting to outline and think about, the effects on the character.

Questioner

Is that Cosmere or non-Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

That one is Cosmere.

JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021)

The time it came out lines up nicely with the time he was probably working on it. I think it's an interesting implication that Yumi, whose whole life is defined by her role their society, is not special. We know that the nightmare painter is nor a power, just a skill. While this doesn't have many more implications beyond that, its interesting nothless. 

(I reposted it since I realized the title was a kinda spoiler)

[+Harrycrapper]

It's been a while since I read the sample chapters for this one, but it almost sounds more like the rock stacking magic system, not the Nightmare Painter one. 

[Argenti he/him]

Yes, but Brandon has said before that they're the same magic system, just in different applications.

[earthexile]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:44 PM, Argenti said:

Yes, but Brandon has said before that they're the same magic system, just in different applications.

It's the use of art to convince spren (spirits, seons, whatever we're calling living bits of Investiture) to become something else. Yumi convinces generic spirits to become useful tools, and Painter convinces hostile spirits to become harmless objects. In both cases, a thing with its own will is shaped by human intent, by art, into something more suited for human existence.

[Yumiya]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:34 AM, Argenti said:

I think it's an interesting implication that Yumi, whose whole life is defined by her role their society, is not special. 

I think Yumi IS special. She was not born special, but because she was chosen by her people, she became special. She has powers that others don't. Similar to how Knights Radiat are not born special, but become special when they are chosen by and then bonded to a spren.

[Argenti he/him]

28 minutes ago, Yumiya said:

I think Yumi IS special. She was not born special, but because she was chosen by her people, she became special. She has powers that others don't. Similar to how Knights Radiat are not born special, but become special when they are chosen by and then bonded to a spren.

I'm gonna disagree; Her magic can be used by anyone who knows what they're doing. Sure, she's very good at it; maybe she is a spirit-binding virtuoso, but that's just a skill, It's if someone was raised to play an instrument since birth, they're going to be way better than anyone else, and to outside views, they might appear special, but it's nothing the average person couldn't do with a lot of study. The KR have an outside force, essentially a magical symbiote, that grants them power; they are special because a spren was destined to bond to them. (I'm pretty sure Syl said somewhere that she was always with Kaladin, even when she wasn't, like how she remembers stuff Kal did as a kid?) The only thing that might throw a wrench in my ideas is that the spirits talked to her, but maybe they're just doing that because she is very good at her job. As for why Painter was chosen? Maybe because they were both unsatisfied, causing some cognitive resonance that led to a natural connection the spirits could take advantage of?

[Frustration he/him]

21 hours ago, Argenti said:

I'm gonna disagree; Her magic can be used by anyone who knows what they're doing. Sure, she's very good at it; maybe she is a spirit-binding virtuoso, but that's just a skill, It's if someone was raised to play an instrument since birth, they're going to be way better than anyone else, and to outside views, they might appear special, but it's nothing the average person couldn't do with a lot of study. The KR have an outside force, essentially a magical symbiote, that grants them power; they are special because a spren was destined to bond to them. (I'm pretty sure Syl said somewhere that she was always with Kaladin, even when she wasn't, like how she remembers stuff Kal did as a kid?) The only thing that might throw a wrench in my ideas is that the spirits talked to her, but maybe they're just doing that because she is very good at her job. As for why Painter was chosen? Maybe because they were both unsatisfied, causing some cognitive resonance that led to a natural connection the spirits could take advantage of?

Um, it says that the child was given powers, not that it was a skill.

[Argenti he/him]

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Um, it says that the child was given powers, not that it was a skill.

I'm saying that the people are wrong, and that Yumi has no special powers. While Liyun says,

Quote

“You were honored,” Liyun said, “of all the children born that year to be given this calling, these powers. One of only fourteen currently living.”

An omen selected her, which depending on the actual omen, might be completely meaningless 

Quote

Yumi did believe in signs. She had to—as though she rarely spent time thinking about them these days, an omen had been the single most important event in her life. The one that had appeared right after her birth. The one that had marked her as Chosen by the spirits.

She stacks rocks for storm's sake; that's not a magical power, that's just a skill. The turning of spirits into items is basically spren manifestation, where the rocks provide a connection to the physical realm, her creativity, the labor she puts into stacking the rocks, and the awe the people feel from watcher her, all work together to form a connection between the physical realm and the spirits. Of course, the spirits take some energy from her (like Cusicesh) but she can recover from that, and it's not exactly a power either. Which part exactly do you think is a power? The only part that seems like a power that everyone else can't do is her speaking to the spirits, and maybe some kind of cognitive bond, which lets her project her thoughts?

 

I bet i'll be proven wrong when the book comes out 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Argenti

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Argenti said:

She stacks rocks for storm's sake; that's not a magical power, that's just a skill. The turning of spirits into items is basically spren manifestation, where the rocks provide a connection to the physical realm, her creativity, the labor she puts into stacking the rocks, and the awe the people feel from watcher her, all work together to form a connection between the physical realm and the spirits. Of course, the spirits take some energy from her (like Cusicesh) but she can recover from that, and it's not exactly a power either. Which part exactly do you think is a power? The only part that seems like a power that everyone else can't do is her speaking to the spirits, and maybe some kind of cognitive bond, which lets her project her thoughts?

Elantrians write letters, something so basic that we consider it mandatory, yet look where that gets them. Other people simply can't do what they do for the simple reason they aren't elantrians, Sarene probably has the best penmanship of anyone in the book, yet she could never make an Aon function. Yumi stacks rocks, but someone who was not chosen doing the same thing would not have the same effect. 

[Argenti he/him]

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Elantrians write letters, something so basic that we consider it mandatory, yet look where that gets them. Other people simply can't do what they do for the simple reason they aren't elantrians, Sarene probably has the best penmanship of anyone in the book, yet she could never make an Aon function. Yumi stacks rocks, but someone who was not chosen doing the same thing would not have the same effect. 

Quote

learhpa

Could the painting mechanism Painter uses to trap nightmares be used to trap other things in the cosmere? A spren, perhaps, or a seon? How about a fused?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but he does not have any extra power to do this. So for instance, someone from another planet doing what he does would have the same effect on one of those mentioned. Someone from another planet who traveled to his planet who was as talented as him and learned the methodology of him would have the same abilities over the nightmares that he has.

Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022)

So Painter's magic is not an invested art, and since Yumi and Painter are using the same basic magic system, it can be assumed Yumi's isn't either

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, Argenti said:

So Painter's magic is not an invested art, and since Yumi and Painter are using the same basic magic system, it can be assumed Yumi's isn't either

You don't need to be anyone special to be a Forger, and that's the same basic system as being an Elantrian.

[Argenti he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

You don't need to be anyone special to be a Forger, and that's the same basic system as being an Elantrian.

Actually no! It's not just from Maipon that lets you use Forgery. There is something else going on.

Quote

Questioner

With Forgery and ChayShan, can anybody from that country do them?

Brandon Sanderson

Forge? No.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

But yes, depending on how basic we're going Forgery and Elantrians are the same basic system. The Quote could be Brandon tricking us, or it could be actully answering, no way to tell. I just feel it makes a lot of narritive sense for him to have this person who feels oppressed by their power to realize people forced them to live this awful life, while they really didn't have too. I imagine it will be freeing for Yumi. 

 

[Argenti he/him]

Soon.

[+Child of Hodor]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:34 AM, Argenti said:

So I was reading through WOBs and found this one.

The time it came out lines up nicely with the time he was probably working on it. I think it's an interesting implication that Yumi, whose whole life is defined by her role their society, is not special. We know that the nightmare painter is nor a power, just a skill. While this doesn't have many more implications beyond that, its interesting nothless. 

(I reposted it since I realized the title was a kinda spoiler)

Good thought. It kinda sounds like the Godking from Warbreaker, but obviously that's not what he is talking about. It's a little different because they give him all this power but take away his ability to actual use it. 

Somewhat off topic, but this isn't first he pitched something he kinda already did. On a recent Intentionally Blank episode Brandon was pitching as an idea for a story: what if an evil overlord comes to kill his underling, like Vader does in Empire, but the underling manages to kill Vader and then tries to masquerade as Vader to cover up that Vader died. 

I'm thinking isn't this exactly what you did in SA4 ending and epilogue?  

Edited June 30, 2023 by Child of Hodor

[Argenti he/him]

1 minute ago, Child of Hodor said:

I'm thinking isn't this exactly what you did in SA4 ending and epilogue?  

Oh it is. 

[Argenti he/him]

Yeah, so, this is false but like it's irrelevant. She's invested, but... You understand if you read the book.

[Saxsoon]

Reminds me of a Stargate SG1 episode where children were used to gain ultimate knowledge for their society . . . and well spoilers.

[trav]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:15 PM, Argenti said:

Yeah, so, this is false but like it's irrelevant. She's invested, but... You understand if you read the book.

Lerasium can also be given. Why not Yumis powers. Does not matter if she is invested, really.