Is Reforging Adonalsium Possible?

[Doonl]

So obviously this is like 80% speculation, but hey that's what makes it fun right?

We generally assume that reforming Adonalsium is possible, partly because its been mentioned by Hoid, who is by far the most reliable source of information (at least when he gives it) on the past and the deepest workings of the cosmere. However, even Hoid seems uncertain as to the possibility, as shown in his conversation with Daliner. Personally I think he have yet to see any convincing evidence that the possibility exists.

Starting with the most obvious, Sazed is the only example of a combination of the 16 original shards held by one person that we have seen, and I think its fair to say that as an experiment in combining the shards, he has been less than successful. Not only is he incapable of really taking action, but he is actively  struggling to hold the two together. I have to assume that no successfully recreated version of Ado would include the vessel working that hard to keep the whole together, and if it did it sounds profoundly dangerous. However, even putting those things aside, describing Harmony as a combination of the two shards of Preservation and Ruin at all is generous. We (and everyone else) have always understood Harmony as two distinct shards that happen to be held by the same vessel. The same is true of Ettemetal, which is immensely unstable and, despite god metals acting like elements, can be split into Atium and Lerasium as if it was an alloy. I actually have made a post before about whether this is a state inherent in holding 2 shards or not, here: 

 

Also to consider, is the ongoing question of whether there was a vessel for Adonalsium or whether it was literally just sentient magic goop. If it would need a vessel to recombine Ado then I think there is a significant question of who could serve. Its a question for another thread, but long story short, single shards need people with specific traits that align with the shards to be effective bearers, and the requirements seem to have been even more demanding for Sazed taking up 2 shards. So, would Adonalsium have requirments that are just so absurd that only the perfect person could ever hope to do it, or would the intent of all sixteen shards be a wash and just any old guy could pick up the divine power of all creation? 

Alternativly, if Adonalsium does not need a vessel then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Vasher says something along the lines of "if you leave magic alone for long enough it becomes sentient" (I dont have the book on hand sorry for the vague quote) in RoW while talking with Kaladin. So, I assume the theory would be that you just kinda drop all 16 shards in one place and wait, but that also leaves a lot of problems. The Dominion and Devotion shards on Sel were dropped after odium did what he does, and now they are kinda just chilling in the cognitive realm, apparently making it super dangerous to go there. This raises the question of whether you need to leave the 16 shards alone in a specific way to get adonalsium and not just an apocalypse, or maybe D&D are somehow unable to merge together as Ado would, but either way surely they should have become sentient by now, something we have had no indication of.

Also, some of the shards have intent which is directly opposed to reforming Adonalsium, which surely would be an obstacle. Most importantly, Autonomy is deeply opposed to mixing with other shards. I have to assume it is still possible to mix autonomy with other shards but it also must be much more difficult, similar to how Bavadium is repelled by Ettemetal.  Would the presence of all the pieces of Adonalsium make a difference there? Odium also does not want to be mixed, but if im honest I have always been unclear on how much of that was Odium and how much of that was Rayse.

Finally, the way that Adonalsium was shattered probably matters. If it was just that enough force was applied to separate the shards (however the heck that would even be possible) that sure, but I cant imagine it was that simple, and it seems more likely that it involved a fundamental changing of the way that investiture exists to acomplish

Long story short, it seems like one of two things needs to be true for Adonalsium to even be a possibility on the table. 1) The boring answer, that simply the fact that all 16 shards are there and not some combination of a few changes the way they interact with each other, simply bypassing all these problems, or 2) The way in which we understand both how shards combine together, and how investiture acts when it is left alone are deeply flawed.

As a final note, at the end of the day I do think Adonalsium being reformed is possible, after all it would kinda be narativly unsatisfying if it was just "sorry about the years of speculation yall, it was never even an option," I just don't see how its possible given our current information

 

[alder24]

4 hours ago, Doonl said:

Alternativly, if Adonalsium does not need a vessel then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Vasher says something along the lines of "if you leave magic alone for long enough it becomes sentient" (I dont have the book on hand sorry for the vague quote) in RoW while talking with Kaladin. So, I assume the theory would be that you just kinda drop all 16 shards in one place and wait, but that also leaves a lot of problems. The Dominion and Devotion shards on Sel were dropped after odium did what he does, and now they are kinda just chilling in the cognitive realm, apparently making it super dangerous to go there. This raises the question of whether you need to leave the 16 shards alone in a specific way to get adonalsium and not just an apocalypse, or maybe D&D are somehow unable to merge together as Ado would, but either way surely they should have become sentient by now, something we have had no indication of.

Dominion and Devotion's investiture IS mixed together into the Dor, Arcanum Unbounded:

Quote

 

At this point, the bulk of the Investiture that made up the powers of Dominion and Devotion is trapped on the Cognitive Realm. Collectively, these powers—which have a polarized relationship—are called the Dor. Forced together as they are, trapped and bursting to escape, they power the various forms of magic on Sel, which are multitude

and WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

So I've got sort of a Shard-related question. So, the entity that Harmony is, all the other Shards that we've had named so far, are any of them combinations, or are they all--

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, good question. The only one I would count as a combination is the Dor, right? But it isn't even a full Shard. So everything else, single holder only when we talk about it okay? That's an excellent question. Or they've been Splintered completely.

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

And the Dor is gaining self-awareness of its own, slowly, which was noted once again in Arcanum Unbounded. But Odium specifically pulled their investiture into CR to prevent it from gaining sentience on its own, so investiture being in CR has a harder time gaining sentience then the one in SR:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Odium locked the Selish Shards in the Cognitive Realm to keep them from achieving sentience or someone Ascending.

Footnote: taken from General Q&A
Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

 

Spoiler

[...]

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

So on Sel, we have AonDor. AonDor is based on the fact that the Dor, which is an amalgamation of Dominion and Devotion, has been pressed together and stuffed into the Cognitive Realm by Odium who didn't want it to gain sentience, as Investiture will do if it is left alone. It will either seek someone to be its Vessel or it will gain sentience. He pressed it in there; he pressed it together, which creates the violent reaction, because those two intents are opposed.

[...]

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

4 hours ago, Doonl said:

As a final note, at the end of the day I do think Adonalsium being reformed is possible, after all it would kinda be narativly unsatisfying if it was just "sorry about the years of speculation yall, it was never even an option," I just don't see how its possible given our current information

I also think that reforging Adonalsium is possible, but even if Brandon were to choose not to bring him back, I believe that he will deliver us a possibility that we haven't considered to even exist, and still be satisfying.

[cometaryorbit]

I think the sixteen Shards could be combined -- Intent/Connection issues would be a problem, but the Ire Connection orb shows that can be bypassed -- but it might not recreate Adonalsium, per se. It depends on what Adonalsium was.

If Adonalsium's personality went Beyond, then you'd just get a new Vessel of Adonalsium, not really the same person.

If Adonalsium being Shattered was more like Syl being killed by Kaladin's broken oaths in WoR, then maybe it could truly be reassembled (Syl's broken rock analogy - all the pieces still exist?)

[Leuthie]

I contend that Adonalsium wants to be reformed. If left on its own, Investiture will join Investiture. It was forced to be separated by the Shattering. It was ripped apart and its pieces were carried away. It wants to be together.

Despite being in opposition, Ruin and Preservation didn't hesitate to enter the same Vessel. Even with violent reaction, Devotion and Dominion have stayed combined. These opposed Intents need other Intents to give them more context and temper their reactions to each other, but they WANT to be together.

One tends to focus on the fact that Sazed has trouble acting and that Ettmetal isn't as stable as you'd think a godmetal should be. What is being ignored is that these diametrically opposed Intents are still able to cohabit one Vessel and that Ettmetal is able to exist despite its instability. Sazed isn't holding them together by force of will, they WANT to be together. They're just not very good at it without the rest of the Intents.