The layers of the Nahel Bond

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

First off, part of this theory requires another little theory to explain it. I think the primary divine attributes in the Vorin Essences table indicate what the relevant spren look for, and cultivate, in candidates for their Order: protective people for Windrunners, empathetic people for Edgedancers. The secondary attribute, on the other hand, is the spren's contribution to the Order, which the Radiant gains greater mastery of as they bond with their spren and become more like them: Windrunners pick up leadership skills, Edgedancers learn how to heal (probably in a more Cognitive sense in this case).

So, my main theory, is that at each Ideal a Radiant Connects with a different aspect of their spren and this bond strengthens through subsequent Ideals, sort of like a reverse of the Heightenings. What they Connect to defines the pattern of the Ideals (not the content though) and what abilities they gain through control and understanding of that aspect.
First Ideal: This Ideal is the same for all Orders because they Connect to the same thing, their spren's sprenhood for want of a better word. It's the spren's alignment to Honour and Cultivation, and access to Surges. This is what lets them take stormlight into their body and use it for Surges; as the bond strengthens they can hold it longer and use it more efficiently.
Second Ideal: I'm least clear on this one but I think this might be where the Radiant Connects with the primary motivation or perhaps secondary concept of the spren, which translates to the secondary divine attribute of the Order. That's why the Second Ideal is almost always a commitment to the general purpose of the Order. As this bond progresses, they express the attribute more strongly, such as Windrunners gaining the ability to command more and more people. Not sure if their is any specific ability gained at this level, perhaps the Surges get a major boost.
Third Ideal: At this level the Radiant Connects with the core concept of their spren when they swear an Ideal that gives them a deeper commitment and understanding of their purpose. They can now pull their spren fully into the Physical Realm as a Shardblade and they effectively count as their spren, allowing them to take on others as Squires.
Fourth Ideal: The Radiant now Connects to things beyond their spren; to simpler, more tangible forms of the Radiant spren's concept in the form of the cousin spren. They gain an understanding and control of the lesser spren and their concept, as well as a specific group that they can pull into Shardplate. Their Ideal also becomes about broader, real-world applications of their purpose, which naturally involves complexity and limitations.
Fifth Ideal: This is obviously speculative, but I think at this level the things being Connected to have been getting broader and broader, so, what's bigger than the wind? The Highstorm. What's bigger than logic? Cognition (Shadesmar). The Surges are meant to be fundamental forces, so they must combine to form identifiable things. The pairing of the Surges have been said to be natural so there must be pre-existing examples of these pairs. Therefore, I think major aspects of Roshar are inherently linked to the Surge pairs and the Knights Radiant Connect to them at the highest Ideal, gaining some level of oneness with them. I have no idea what this would mean for their last oath.

 

Share your thoughts and criticisms, please. 

[therunner he/him]

I like this theory, though not sure about the implications on the 'powers' so to speak.
But to this

4 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

. I think the primary divine attributes in the Vorin Essences table indicate what the relevant spren look for, and cultivate, in candidates for their Order:

I would like to add, because it fits very well:

• Windrunner: Protecting -> Leading
  • Kaladin stars as very protective, and through Oaths learns more responsibility (to protect 'equally' on 3rd Oath) and that he has to let go/delegate (4th Oath)
• Skybreakers: Just -> Confident
  • Szeth is very lawful person (so we could call him 'just' for given meaning), and he is slowly learning to be more confident in his choices
  • 5th Ideal being 'I am the Law', could be interpreted as full confidence of Skybreaker in their own understanding of justice, without need to rely on external crutches
• Dustbringers: Brave -> Obedient
  • Not sure on this, we have not seen much
• Edgedancers: Loving -> Healing
  • Lift is loving/caring in her own way, and wants to help others
  • The Oaths also seem to start with noticing the forgotten (caring for them), listening to ignored (and you have to listen to he able to heal and help), so I would expect 4th Ideal to be about acting on the knowledge gleaned from the forgotten and ignored ones
  • Sidenote: Adolin fits with Edgedancers very well: Caring for Maya (who is forgotten deadeye even by other spren), Listening to her (paying attention to her bevaior, literally hearing her name), and helps her get voice (RoW)
• Truthwatchers: Learned -> Giving
  • Renarin and Rlain do both seem to be learned and inquisitive, but they are also Corrupted truthwatchers
  • Stump not sure how she fits honestly
• Lightweavers: Creativity -> Honesty
  • All Lightweavers are very creative even if in different ways, and their Oaths literally force them to be Honest with themselves and others, so they fit perfectly
• Elsecallers: Wisdom -> Care
  • Jasnah could be called wise (if maybe a bit sheltered from some practicalities), and the scene with Renarin where she most likely swears 4th Ideal afterwards does suggest that tempering 'wisdom/logic' with care is crucial in progress
• Willshaper: Resolute -> Builder
  • Both Eshonai and Venli were/are resolute Singers (one determined to explore lands and then defend her people, the other to explore their history and heritage and bring gods back, then to free herself and others from Fused), will it lead to building is a question
• Stonewards: Dependable -> Resourceful
  • Little information, so cant tell (though if Taln becomes Radiant, he would be dependable like no one else)
• Bondsmiths: Pious -> Guiding
  • Both Dalinar and Navani are quite religious people (Dalinar's obsessive reading and ruminating on Way of Kings, Navani often thinks of Allmighty and burns prayers etc.), and Dalinar definately becomes a guiding person (leading by example) where Navani guides by nudging people and putting them in right place (her coordination of scientists)

So since 6/10 Orders show this pattern quite strongly (Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Lightweavers, Elsecallers, Bondsmiths) I think you are on to something there.

Edited April 1, 2023 by therunner

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

Yes, nail on the head, this is most of my reasoning for that, I was just trying to keep the post brief. One thing though; Elsecallers are “Careful” as in precise or cautious, not “Care” as in empathy.

Thanks for liking the theory 

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

First off, part of this theory requires another little theory to explain it. I think the primary divine attributes in the Vorin Essences table indicate what the relevant spren look for, and cultivate, in candidates for their Order: protective people for Windrunners, empathetic people for Edgedancers. The secondary attribute, on the other hand, is the spren's contribution to the Order, which the Radiant gains greater mastery of as they bond with their spren and become more like them: Windrunners pick up leadership skills, Edgedancers learn how to heal (probably in a more Cognitive sense in this case).

So, my main theory, is that at each Ideal a Radiant Connects with a different aspect of their spren and this bond strengthens through subsequent Ideals, sort of like a reverse of the Heightenings. What they Connect to defines the pattern of the Ideals (not the content though) and what abilities they gain through control and understanding of that aspect.
First Ideal: This Ideal is the same for all Orders because they Connect to the same thing, their spren's sprenhood for want of a better word. It's the spren's alignment to Honour and Cultivation, and access to Surges. This is what lets them take stormlight into their body and use it for Surges; as the bond strengthens they can hold it longer and use it more efficiently.
Second Ideal: I'm least clear on this one but I think this might be where the Radiant Connects with the primary motivation or perhaps secondary concept of the spren, which translates to the secondary divine attribute of the Order. That's why the Second Ideal is almost always a commitment to the general purpose of the Order. As this bond progresses, they express the attribute more strongly, such as Windrunners gaining the ability to command more and more people. Not sure if their is any specific ability gained at this level, perhaps the Surges get a major boost.
Third Ideal: At this level the Radiant Connects with the core concept of their spren when they swear an Ideal that gives them a deeper commitment and understanding of their purpose. They can now pull their spren fully into the Physical Realm as a Shardblade and they effectively count as their spren, allowing them to take on others as Squires.
Fourth Ideal: The Radiant now Connects to things beyond their spren; to simpler, more tangible forms of the Radiant spren's concept in the form of the cousin spren. They gain an understanding and control of the lesser spren and their concept, as well as a specific group that they can pull into Shardplate. Their Ideal also becomes about broader, real-world applications of their purpose, which naturally involves complexity and limitations.
Fifth Ideal: This is obviously speculative, but I think at this level the things being Connected to have been getting broader and broader, so, what's bigger than the wind? The Highstorm. What's bigger than logic? Cognition (Shadesmar). The Surges are meant to be fundamental forces, so they must combine to form identifiable things. The pairing of the Surges have been said to be natural so there must be pre-existing examples of these pairs. Therefore, I think major aspects of Roshar are inherently linked to the Surge pairs and the Knights Radiant Connect to them at the highest Ideal, gaining some level of oneness with them. I have no idea what this would mean for their last oath.

 

Share your thoughts and criticisms, please. 

I like it! I think that your reasoning behind the Radiant Connecting different parts of their Spren has a descent amount of merit to it, and I like think that the concept of the Vorin essences being integrated into the whole deal makes a lot of sense too, as the perception of the Vorin culture would have shaped the Spren over time.

Overall, I think it's very good, though as with all theories I think we'd need to see more concrete examples in-world before I'd settle on its truth for good. Nice job!