Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 At the beginning of Mistborn: The Final Empire, Vin doesn't know she's an Allomancer, but has been burning metals instinctively for years. This gives her the knack for quickly mastering the art which makes her into the unstoppable Allomantic whirlwind we all know and love. Fair enough. Still, I have one small issue with this: where is she getting the metals? I know that Kelsier tells us it was bits of her eating utensils, impurities in the water, etc. But that doesn't really make sense, does it? If Vin was just instinctively burning whatever random metals were in her stomach, she wouldn't have been a good luck charm and budding threat to her crew leader, she would have been sick all the time. Allomancy requires very pure metals or alloys, to the point where it requires specialized shops that exist for the sole purpose of providing those things, and live in fear of giving a bad batch to a Mistborn, who then kills them all. But, apparently, young Vin could just burn at random, and come out fine. This mysterious talent did nothing to help her find the true alloy of Aluminum, though. Does anyone know why? -- Deus Ex Biotica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulyssessword Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) This gives her the knack for quickly mastering the art ... I disagree with this. I believe that for Allomancy, having strength in a metal grants skill inherently, but haven't gathered enough hard evidence to make a thread out of it. Back to the main topic: One way that I could see this working out well is if purity only matters as a total mass of impurities burned, as opposed to a proportion. If this is right, you would get the same amount sick from burning 2 grams of 99% pure metal as 0.04 grams of 50% pure metal, as they both have 20 mg of impurities in them. This would make the purity of the metals Vin burned in her early life unimportant, as the quantity was so low. Edited November 20, 2011 by ulyssessword 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I disagree with this. I believe that for Allomancy, having strength in a metal grants skill inherently, but haven't gathered enough hard evidence to make a thread out of it. Back to the main topic: One way that I could see this working out well is if purity only matters as a total mass of impurities burned, as opposed to a proportion. If this is right, you would get the same amount sick from burning 2 grams of 99% pure metal as 0.04 grams of 50% pure metal, as they both have 20 mg of impurities in them. This would make the purity of the metals Vin burned in her early life unimportant, as the quantity was so low. I think that Vin's body will instinctively burn only the metal that is in close enough proportions to the correct amount. As Kelsier says, “...if the mixture is only off by a bit, you’ll still get some power out of it,” so her body will only burn the mixtures that won't hurt her. The human body is nice that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eri Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 AFAIR from the book, it were trace metals present in water etc. They used metal pipes and jugs and whatnot; tiny amounts of metals got into water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think that Vin's body will instinctively burn only the metal that is in close enough proportions to the correct amount. As Kelsier says, “...if the mixture is only off by a bit, you’ll still get some power out of it,” so her body will only burn the mixtures that won't hurt her. The human body is nice that way. But then, how could any Allomancer ever mess up and burn an impure alloy of a metal they already know? Wouldn't their body refuse? (ulyssessword, I had been assuming that both strength and lifelong practice were elements in how powerful Vin became, but you're right - I had been taking that for granted without hard proof.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 But then, how could any Allomancer ever mess up and burn an impure alloy of a metal they already know? Wouldn't their body refuse? (ulyssessword, I had been assuming that both strength and lifelong practice were elements in how powerful Vin became, but you're right - I had been taking that for granted without hard proof.) Mind over matter maybe? If you want to burn it you will? People can be stupid with their bodies. Without a persons stupid conscious thoughts to screw the body up, your body generally won't do stuff that is harmful to it, like skateboarding down railing without a skateboard. >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm pretty sure a Pewterarm could do that safely, though. More seriously, Vin wasn't just running on pure instinct. She could sense how large her reserves of "luck" were, and used them willfully, she could even tell after drinking a vial of metals that it was the same as her luck, but much more. So, if she was protected from bad alloys before, why not after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispsy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 think about it..its trace metals, now we see vin later on burning loads of bad alloys looking for duralamin. She doesnt die from this, but doesnt gain any power and its not very pleasant. In the trace metals she is burning from the water, they might not be allomantically pure, but they are close enough to give her a tiny amount of power (because there is a tiny amount) and because there is a tiny amount one, it would probably be covered by the tiny pewter and two, there is so little and it is so close to the metal anyway and she is walking round as an urchin feelingpretty bad anyway so i cant see how she would notice even if she were burning slightly bad alloys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliare Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I think there is, indeed, some kind of instinct to it. It's like snapping. I mean, when a person snaps, it's because he has been through a life-threatening experience, and it's the body's instictive reaction. Just the same way a normal body would produce adrenaline, it answers by trying to burn allomantic metals. The body already "knows" how to do it, it's only necessary for it to have the needed compounds. Allomancy is hereditary, just as our DNA has coded a series of processes that will lead to producing adrenaline, and only has to start the reaction. Now, before doing it for the first time, you learn how to do it at will. So you "give" the order for burning X metal, and the body makes do if the metal it has is not the same, but a similar alloy. Because you "know" you can do it, and thus force the body. The same way that things happen if you overexert yourself. Biological reasons notwithstanding, it is obvious that Luthadel's water has allomantically-useful metals on it, of Vin wouldn't have been able to ever "burn" anything, because she would not have anything to burn. And it's not like if she had been a lesser-powered mistborn, she was more like a soother, so it must be that there's good brass in Luthadel's water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 exactly, the body has instincts that mean allomancers don't unconsciously burn metals that will make them sick, but similar to how people can chose to not eat when hungry, or to stuff themselves till they get sick, or to stay up all night, an allomancer can override their body's instincts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChronicFeruchemist Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Maybe she never burned an alloy? Though that sounds overly simplistic and could totally be proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Maybe she never burned an alloy? Though that sounds overly simplistic and could totally be proven wrong. First, brass and pewter are both alloys, and those are the two she knew how to burn. Second, an impure metal i.e. 98% iron and 2% cobalt will work the same as a bad allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Maybe the Steel Ministry puts Allomanticly pure metals into the drinking water to find Allomancers. They dump in metals, mistings/Mistborn instinctively burn it, and the Ministry Seekers find them. It is what the Inquisitors do to the nobles to find Seers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChronicFeruchemist Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Maybe the Steel Ministry puts Allomanticly pure metals into the drinking water to find Allomancers. They dump in metals, mistings/Mistborn instinctively burn it, and the Ministry Seekers find them. It is what the Inquisitors do to the nobles to find Seers. That makes so much sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Its what I would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChronicFeruchemist Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I was thinking pure metal piping for pipes... But that made even less sense than my orignal answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Anyone ever consider what she had was possibly purified by the Mists? In the years prior to Kelsier recruiting her, Vin did not wear her earring much. Is it possible she drew on the mists in minute quantities without ever realizing it? The "same as my Luck" thought isn't really all that helpful, since she's ignorant of both what the mists really are and what she's capable of until book 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 it's actually suggested in one of the HoA epigraphs that she might have done that, so I'd say it's a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Anyone ever consider what she had was possibly purified by the Mists? In the years prior to Kelsier recruiting her, Vin did not wear her earring much. Is it possible she drew on the mists in minute quantities without ever realizing it? The "same as my Luck" thought isn't really all that helpful, since she's ignorant of both what the mists really are and what she's capable of until book 3. I don't think so. Vin would have needed to be in the mists. During her time as an urchin she never went into the mists. Edited December 19, 2011 by Emeralis00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 No, she did. All the members of the Skaa underground did. Breaking and entering in broad daylight works poorly. That being said, she used her Luck a lot during the day. It could be related to her strength, giving her a limited tolerance for impurities. Plus, Luthandel was sited to have high concentrations of reasonably-pure allomantic metals in the groundwater on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 also, she and Reen slept in alleys a lot because they didn't always have a place to stay indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 No, she did. All the members of the Skaa underground did. Breaking and entering in broad daylight works poorly. That being said, she used her Luck a lot during the day. It could be related to her strength, giving her a limited tolerance for impurities. Plus, Luthandel was sited to have high concentrations of reasonably-pure allomantic metals in the groundwater on purpose. Okay, but the general attitude of the Skaa was that the less time spent in the mists, the better. And she kept her luck in reserve for scams, and keeping the other crew members away. Neither of which would reasonably happen in the mists, but hey. *Shrugs* I just think the simpler explanations are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Also, maybe her body could burn only the good metal since it was all dissolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralis00 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 reading over the part again where the trace minerals are mentioned, I get the impression that there is a large variety of metals. Her body could just be selecting the best possible metal from the bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massik Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry bot bump this, but I am new ehre, so all of hte topics are new to me. True it is said that impure alloys can make you sick and all. but.. trace is the key here, I think. Her luck was only able to do a very small amount of soothing before it was depleted because it was such a small amount of metal. So i should think, would whatever sickness be small. Also since she was most likely instinctively burning a small amount of peweter, it most likely didnt effect her. Even if it did, she would have never known, because the condition would have beent he same all of her life; to her it wouldnt be "I feel a little sick" it would be "I feel like Vin". Also... IIRC, she has a brass ear ring.. She is already mistborn, but a hemalurgist in soothing as well, meaning she would need a very trace amount of brass for he "luck" to work. Which is probably why it is the only one that actually stands out to her before she learns that she is a mistborn. Edited January 19, 2012 by Massik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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