discussion Harmony Bound by Oaths?

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

Fair warning, cosmere-wide spoilers for everything up to TLM

I have just had two thoughts and I'm curious what everyone thinks here:

1. When T-Odium ascends, he is still bound by the pact that Rayse made with Dalinar. The power, is bound by the oaths.

2. When Ruin and Preservation worked together to create Scadrial, they had the agreement that eventually Preservation would have to allow Ruin to destroy what they had created

So, when Sazed took up both shards and became Harmony, is he still bound by both sides of that agreement? Will he eventually have to give way to allow the Ruin portion of his power the outlet to destroy what was created? Or, since he would hold both sides, is he then able to anull the agreement (if it even still stands)? Then again, would the Ruin intent allow him to make that anullment?

[Ati16 he/him]

I think this depends on whether the Catacendre counted as "destroying the world" or not. If not then it could be what will make Harmony turn into Discord permanently.

Spoiler

Edited December 21, 2022 by Ati16

[offer]

Breaking an oath by a shard is possible but it gives the other shard an opening to attack you. In the case of Harmony Ruin could use it against preservation but as they are both held by Sazed he is not using this oppurtinuty.

In a WoB brandon explained that and added in a very cynical voice "This does leave Ruin with more advantage in this situation, but they're the same individual, so I'm sure that's just fine! No problems at all! Everybody's doing just great." It might mean that this will have effect on the plot in the future

 

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Kyrroti

Shards can't break oaths, and new Vessels have to follow previous Shards' deals. Ruin and Preservation made a deal. Does Harmony have to follow that deal?

Brandon Sanderson

The Ruin and Preservation deal is considered fulfilled. There's a lot of things going on in here. The way that oaths work, perception is still important. And Shards can break deals, it gives others a way to get at them. Odium could break his deal, but if he did, that's very dangerous to those who would seek to have advantage against him. I think fulfilled is the wrong term, the deal between Ruin and Preservation is broken, and no longer in force because it was broken. This does leave Ruin with more advantage in this situation, but they're the same individual, so I'm sure that's just fine! No problems at all! Everybody's doing just great.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

[alder24]

But Preservation already broke his deal with Ruin, which cause Leras death. All of what had happened with Preservation in Secret History and Era 1 was because Preservation broke the oath, tricked and trapped Ruin. So it's no longer active, like WoB posted above tells us.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

4 hours ago, offer said:

Breaking an oath by a shard is possible but it gives the other shard an opening to attack you. In the case of Harmony Ruin could use it against preservation but as they are both held by Sazed he is not using this oppurtinuty.

In a WoB brandon explained that and added in a very cynical voice "This does leave Ruin with more advantage in this situation, but they're the same individual, so I'm sure that's just fine! No problems at all! Everybody's doing just great." It might mean that this will have effect on the plot in the future

 

 

Perfect thanks!! Didn’t know there was a WOB on this already