Perpendicularities, Investiture and Aluminum

[QafianSage]

So, I just had a thought. If one were to gather up enough Investiture to cause a Perpendicularity to form, shove that Investiture into an object (say, via Awakening for sake of argument), then encase that object in aluminum, would it still cause the Realms to draw together on the 'other side' of the aluminum? I.e., while encased, would the Perpendicularity it creates be confined within the aluminum, or could it still stretch beyond it? Aluminum blocks magic, but I'm not sure this effect is magic per se so much as just... a general effect that Investiture has, analogous to the way gravity is caused by mass.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Aluminum doesn't just block Investiture from Magic Systems, it blocks investiture period.

So chances are there would be no Perpendicularity, or maybe it would just be hidden.

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, QafianSage said:

So, I just had a thought. If one were to gather up enough Investiture to cause a Perpendicularity to form, shove that Investiture into an object (say, via Awakening for sake of argument), then encase that object in aluminum, would it still cause the Realms to draw together on the 'other side' of the aluminum? I.e., while encased, would the Perpendicularity it creates be confined within the aluminum, or could it still stretch beyond it? Aluminum blocks magic, but I'm not sure this effect is magic per se so much as just... a general effect that Investiture has, analogous to the way gravity is caused by mass.

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Aluminum doesn't just block Investiture from Magic Systems, it blocks investiture period.

So chances are there would be no Perpendicularity, or maybe it would just be hidden.

Well, if you had enough investiture to start a Perpendicularity, then used it in a magic system; it may not be free to form a Perpendicularity any more. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

So, in your example, it would probably matter if the investiture use in awakening remains on the physical realm, or is it inhabiting the Cognitive aspect while "awakened." ALso note, Nightblood (even after taking a bite from Odium in RoW) either doesn't have enough investiture to pierce the realms - or the investiture used in Awakening doesn;t natually pierce the realms while an object is "Awake." WoB

Spoiler

TheFulgid

Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. 

TheFulgid

...So, it doesn't have to be a nicrosil metalmind.

Brandon Sanderson

No. 

While it is not directly relevant, there is this WoB, as well:

Spoiler

The_Carpathian

Can aluminum be used to take liquid from a Shardpool, and will it stay Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

That would work.

 

[QafianSage]

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Well, if you had enough investiture to start a Perpendicularity, then used it in a magic system; it may not be free to form a Perpendicularity any more. WoB:

  Hide contents

Questioner

In our universe, mass and energy curve space. I was wondering if Investiture does the same or something similar

Brandon Sanderson

It does something similar. It draws the three Realms together. So it's got like-- Imagine a gravitational pull piercing Realms. Right? Of kind of--

Questioner

And that's how a perpendicularity works?

Brandon Sanderson

That's not the only way a perpendicularity works, but one surefire way to create a perpendicularity is a massive collection of Investiture in the Cognitive or mostly Physical realm. But Cognitive's weird, doesn't always work the right way. But there are ways to do it that way too.

So, in your example, it would probably matter if the investiture use in awakening remains on the physical realm, or is it inhabiting the Cognitive aspect while "awakened." ALso note, Nightblood (even after taking a bite from Odium in RoW) either doesn't have enough investiture to pierce the realms - or the investiture used in Awakening doesn;t natually pierce the realms while an object is "Awake." WoB

  Hide contents

TheFulgid

Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. 

TheFulgid

...So, it doesn't have to be a nicrosil metalmind.

Brandon Sanderson

No. 

While it is not directly relevant, there is this WoB, as well:

  Hide contents

The_Carpathian

Can aluminum be used to take liquid from a Shardpool, and will it stay Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

That would work.

 

Those are all good points, though I was just using Awakening as an example for how one might concentrate a lot of Investiture in an object. I guess my main question is, does aluminum block secondary effects of Investiture like its warping effects on the Realms, or 'only' Investiture itself (whether it's in a 'raw' form or being used in magic).

[Treamayne]

1 minute ago, QafianSage said:

I guess my main question is, does aluminum block secondary effects of Investiture like its warping effects on the Realms, or 'only' Investiture itself (whether it's in a 'raw' form or being used in magic).

Well, when a perpendicularity forms, ir pierces the realms. The Spiritual Realm has neither time nor space, so having aluminum around he physical aspect shouldn't affect that (there is no "around" or "surround" in a realm without space). So, it's possible that the physical aspects (sensed with Heighteneings or Bronze) would be blocked int he Physical Realm; there would probably be no effect to the perpendicularity in the Spiritual Realm. Since the Cognitive Realm is weird, there will probably be inconsistent effects depending on factors such as:

• Was the investiture put there for the purposes of hiding it?
• Do other's know about it?
  • If yes, are they aware that it was meant to be hidden?
• Is the "box" manifested (or partially manifested) in Shadesmar?
  • e.g. Scadrial Shadesmar - where we see the Well of Ascension as a beacon of power that can be seen through the misty Cognitive aspect of the Kredik Shaw cavern; but as we see when Kelsier manifests the sack and other objects, they have a more physical presence in Sadesmar.
• etc

[Quantus he/him]

Aluminum doesnt block Realmic effects, otherwise you could not Soulcast things inside an aluminum box as we've seen done on-stage.  So I dont think Bottling a Perpendicularity would destroy it, just cut it off in the Physical Realm.  Separately, Elsecalling qualifies as creating a perpendicularity per WOB, meaning it does not strictly require massive amounts of Investiture.  So, for example. I think it likely you could Awakening a Nightblood-style realmic transport Object (perhaps a large Mirror?) with an Aluminum Cover to turn it on and off the way Nightblood's Aluminum sheath is a leash for his Power in more than just the Physical Sense.  

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood

Nightblood's name, by the way, is supposed to sound kind of like the names of the Returned. I played with various different ways for his powers to manifest. I liked the idea of him driving those who hold him to kill anyone nearby. It seemed to work with the concepts that have come before—a kind of unholy, sentient mix of Stormbringer and the One Ring.

The strangest thing about him is the idea that his form isn't that important. The sheath is like a binding for him, keeping his power contained. So drawing him out isn't like drawing a regular weapon, but rather an unleashing of a creature who has been kept chained.

Once that creature is unleashed, he becomes a weapon—even if he's unleashed only a little bit. The sheath itself turns into a weapon, twisting those around it. You don't need to stab someone with Nightblood to kill them; smashing them on the back with the sheath works just as well. It will crunch bones, but beyond that, merely touching them with the sheath when the smoke is leaking can be deadly.

Warbreaker Annotations (Feb. 7, 2011)

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Quantus