Kelsiers first moment on screen

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

At the very beginning of the final empire, Tresting sees a Skaa who looks at him defiantly and smiles. He feels a chill of fear, then the Skaa disappears when he looks away. I think it’s fair to assume that is Kelsier, but do you think he used emotional allomancy to make Tresting feel the fear that he did? I’m assuming yes, but it’s just cool that Brandon weaves that in without calling any of it out before the reader even has any idea what it means. Makes that kind of thing stand out in a re read 

[That1Cellist he/him]

5 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

At the very beginning of the final empire, Tresting sees a Skaa who looks at him defiantly and smiles. He feels a chill of fear, then the Skaa disappears when he looks away. I think it’s fair to assume that is Kelsier, but do you think he used emotional allomancy to make Tresting feel the fear that he did? I’m assuming yes, but it’s just cool that Brandon weaves that in without calling any of it out before the reader even has any idea what it means. Makes that kind of thing stand out in a re read 

Maybe a little, but when you are an awful person like Tresting, the idea that someone you've oppressed might suddenly rise up against you must be awful.

Think French Revolution. You very well might be right, I just feel like pointing out that it's totally possible that no Allomancy was involved.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

6 minutes ago, That1Cellist said:

Maybe a little, but when you are an awful person like Tresting, the idea that someone you've oppressed might suddenly rise up against you must be awful.

Think French Revolution. You very well might be right, I just feel like pointing out that it's totally possible that no Allomancy was involved.

That’s a great point! I’m not sure which version I like better- that we see examples of allomancy in very subtle ways without before it is explained, or the idea that some proper posture and a defiant smile were enough to rock a pre catecandre noble’s world. Plus it’s cool to think of Kelsier having that kind of effect without even using allomancy. And it’s interesting to think about Tresting thoughts, maybe he has some guilt tucked way back where he knows he’s a trash bag of a person

[Returned he/him]

I never thought of the possibility that he had. Why would he have used Allomancy that way in this situation? He was trying to stir up skaa to join the rebellion, and an upset Tresting seems a lot more likely to pay closer attention to the skaa and to treat them more harshly. He hadn't even intended to kill Tresting until a heat-of-the-moment event. Whatever else he may be, Kelsier is usually deliberate and careful, with the exception of extreme emotional situations. Frightening Tresting seems contrary to what Kelsier wanted and without any upside.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

6 minutes ago, Returned said:

I never thought of the possibility that he had. Why would he have used Allomancy that way in this situation? He was trying to stir up skaa to join the rebellion, and an upset Tresting seems a lot more likely to pay closer attention to the skaa and to treat them more harshly. He hadn't even intended to kill Tresting until a heat-of-the-moment event. Whatever else he may be, Kelsier is usually deliberate and careful, with the exception of extreme emotional situations. Frightening Tresting seems contrary to what Kelsier wanted and without any upside.

You could ask the same question for why he even let himself be seen, and even stared Tresting down defiantly though, right? Like if he was being careful and calculated, having a stare down with Tresting while an obligator was there is a risky move with no real reward. I think Kelsier just likes the theatrics and enjoys playing with nobles out of a pure loathing for what they do and represent. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that while he was in the act of defying (and almost challenging / inviting Tresting to respond) that he would stoke the emotional flames a little and make him feel that chill of terror that goes down his spine.

[Returned he/him]

1 minute ago, CognitiveShadow said:

You could ask the same question for why he even let himself be seen, and even stared Tresting down defiantly though, right? Like if he was being careful and calculated, having a stare down with Tresting while an obligator was there is a risky move with no real reward. I think Kelsier just likes the theatrics and enjoys playing with nobles out of a pure loathing for what they do and represent. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that while he was in the act of defying (and almost challenging / inviting Tresting to respond) that he would stoke the emotional flames a little and make him feel that chill of terror that goes down his spine.

Sure, and he certainly does like theatrics. I'd argue that using Allomancy radically increases the risk for him, especially in that situation (only skaa around, an obligator who would know about emotional Allomancy, and a nobleman who might be an Allomancer himself). Do we ever see Kelsier play with other nobles that way? I don't recall.

I think it's a nice touch that we generally can't know if emotional Allomancy is at work or not, much like a character in the setting can't know (absent an aluminum hat). Breeze even comments on that early on. If your read on the scene is that Kelsier was Rioting Tresting, who is anyone (save Brandon) to tell you otherwise? But as the post asks if others think so, I do not. It's not necessary to produce the effect we see and there isn't anything in particular to suggest that it is happening. We might as well conclude that Kelsier is constantly Soothing and Rioting nearly everyone he ever sees, just because he can and it would heighten the theatrics for him. And maybe he is!

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 minute ago, Returned said:

We might as well conclude that Kelsier is constantly Soothing and Rioting nearly everyone he ever sees, just because he can and it would heighten the theatrics for him. And maybe he is!

Haha that’s a good point! Yeah it’s tough to know when/if it is happening, I keep going back and forth on whether I’d actually like it if Kelsier was using emotional allomancy at that point. I think I’m leaning towards he probably wasn’t and is just an intense person. Hah plus it definitely plays into the relationship and expectations between the classes that it has such an affect

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

One last thought- now that I’m further along in my re-read, it’s fairly obvious I was wrong to assume Kelsier was using emotional allomancy- when we see Kelsier using it, it is very very obvious. I forgot he wasn’t super skilled in that area haha

[Treamayne]

16 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

I think it’s fair to assume that is Kelsier,

That was confirmed to be Kelsier later in the prologue:

Spoiler

They didn’t complain. They didn’t hope. They barely dared think. That was the way it should be, for they were skaa. They were—

Tresting froze as one of the skaa looked up. The man met Tresting’s eyes, a spark—no, a fire—of defiance showing in his expression. Tresting had never seen anything like it, not in the face of a skaa. Tresting stepped backward reflexively, a chill running through him as the strange, straight-backed skaa held his eyes.

And smiled.

<snip>

“Our day was filled with work, traveler,” said Tepper, one of the skaa elders. “Something you managed to avoid.”

“Fieldwork hasn’t ever really suited me,” Kelsier said. “It’s far too hard on my delicate skin.” He smiled, holding up hands and arms that were lined with layers and layers of thin scars. They covered his skin, running lengthwise, as if some beast had repeatedly raked its claws up and down his arms.

Tepper snorted. He was young to be an elder, probably barely into his forties—at most, he might be five years Kelsier’s senior. However, the scrawny man held himself with the air of one who liked to be in charge.

“This is no time for levity,” Tepper said sternly. “When we harbor a traveler, we expect him to behave himself and avoid suspicion. When you ducked away from the fields this morning, you could have earned a whipping for the men around you.”

“True,” Kelsier said. “But those men could also have been whipped for standing in the wrong place, for pausing too long, or for coughing when a taskmaster walked by.

As for Allomancy, I think if he used anything, he used Zinc. If he rioted fear, then it would only have an effect if Tresting felt the fear to begin with (as per Breeze's later explanations on reading peoples moods because you can only dampen or riot what they already feel, not force an emotion that isn't there). In my head canon he did use Zinc and the smile was because it worked and he saw Tresting take a visible step back. . .

16 hours ago, Returned said:

I never thought of the possibility that he had. Why would he have used Allomancy that way in this situation? He was trying to stir up skaa to join the rebellion, and an upset Tresting seems a lot more likely to pay closer attention to the skaa and to treat them more harshly. He hadn't even intended to kill Tresting until a heat-of-the-moment event. Whatever else he may be, Kelsier is usually deliberate and careful, with the exception of extreme emotional situations. Frightening Tresting seems contrary to what Kelsier wanted and without any upside.

While he didn't go there to kill Tresting initially, he did go there to stir the pot and influence the Skaa toward rebellion (or at least plant the seeds of teh idea). I don't think that he would see some increased harsher treatment as a bad thing to work toward that goal.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Treamayne
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[Returned he/him]

21 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

One last thought- now that I’m further along in my re-read, it’s fairly obvious I was wrong to assume Kelsier was using emotional allomancy- when we see Kelsier using it, it is very very obvious. I forgot he wasn’t super skilled in that area haha

In fairness, ratcheting up Tresting's fear wouldn't take a lot of finesse, especially in a moment that Kelsier would almost certainly recognize would set him off balance.

 

7 hours ago, Treamayne said:

While he didn't go there to kill Tresting initially, he did go there to stir the pot and influence the Skaa toward rebellion (or at least plant the seeds of teh idea). I don't think that he would see some increased harsher treatment as a bad thing to work toward that goal.

That's a fair point. My thinking was that, given roll calls and tracking of leased skaa generally the punishment would be more like executions than more beatings. But both of those happened anyways, and for pretty much any reason at all. It wouldn't be like the executions in the Luthadel square after Yeden's mistake, which Kelsier felt particularly responsible for. And it's suggested later by the elder skaa man that Kelsier's intention was ultimately to force the skaa off of the plantation and into the rebellion, so maybe I was too hasty.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

Great points all around! If nothing else, you’ve both given me plenty to think about while I wait for The Lost Metal to come out haha I’ve been trying to find ways to distract myself for weeks.