Kelsier gets a bad rap

[Why Kaladin?]

Here are a few other WoBs about Kelsier that I though were relevant to this discussion

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Questioner

Is Kelsier evil?

Brandon Sanderson

Kelsier has evil leanings. I would not say evil but he's on the line.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

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Questioner

Would Dalinar or Kaladin like Kelsier?

Brandon Sanderson

You know, I think they both would have their issues with Kelsier.

Questioner

'Cause he's more of a rogue.

Brandon Sanderson

It would really depend on what situation they were in. But I think Dalinar would not approve of his methods. And I think Kaladin would empathize with him, but at the end would not approve either. To Kaladin he would probably represent the things that Kaladin kind of wishes he would do, but is too moral to do. And that would be a dangerous thing for Kaladin.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

I think this one definitely implies some things about Kelsier's character

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ExaltedHamster

I feel like The Lord Ruler from Mistborn would be a pretty good example of black/white philosophy. ( [Brandon] feel free to chime in here if you want). Kelsier from the same book feels pretty red/white to me.

Brandon Sanderson

I always viewed Kelsier as red-black, personally. He loves his friends, and his team, but is counter-authority in a big way. He's extremely selfish and violent, but is bleeding toward believing in something more important as the books begin.

sirgog

This is interesting, I thought of Kelsier as about as mono red as you can get.

Freedom and emotions - rage and love at various times - drive him.

Never altruism, never malice. Just passionate rage.

Brandon Sanderson

I can completely see that argument. However, Kelsier has a strong megalomaniac streak. He set up a religion to worship him. He spent most of his life as a thief, seeking to get ahead--and enrich himself.

His arc is, to an extent, learning to allow the red side of him dominate the black side--but I still see him as a mixture of both. And you can see the malice on occasion (like when he dumps the body of the nobleman he's killed.)

General Reddit 2017 (June 6, 2017)

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Caelum_au_Cylus

Why is Kelsier so awesome?

Brandon Sanderson

Kelsier is different from other protagonists of my books in his harshness. It's what the world needed, but I believe in many other stories of mine, he'd have been the villain.

/r/fantasy AMA 2017 (Feb. 13, 2017)

 

[elsoberanok]

On 15/9/2022 at 13:05, KnightsOfHonor said:

***descargo de responsabilidad*** Me baso en lo que vemos de él en los libros.

Kelsier me parecía alguien que "preferiría confiar y ser traicionado que nunca confiar y nunca tener amigos". Él ama y se preocupa por su equipo y tiene que ser disuadido de esforzarse demasiado para tratar de salvar a la gente en varias ocasiones. Por ejemplo, cuando (olvida su nombre) toma el ejército que estaban construyendo y ataca, Kelsier iba a tratar de salvarlos, pero le dicen "no puedes salvar a todos, kel" y realmente se lo toma muy mal. No tiene amor por las personas malvadas y no duda en eliminarlas de una forma u otra, pero ¿quién piensa que el mal no debe ser eliminado? A veces es muy despiadado en sus métodos, pero vive en un mundo despiadado. Creo que es más un comentario sobre lo mal que están las cosas en Scadrial y menos sobre lo malo que es Kelsier. Supongo que realmente no entiendo de dónde viene todo esto de "Kelsier es malvado" o "Kelsier es un tipo malo". La reputación que parece tener en este sitio es muy diferente de lo que parece presentarse en los libros. A mí me parece un hombre en un mundo duro y tosco que toma decisiones difíciles y toscas. Pero a pesar de todas las cosas difíciles que ha tenido que hacer, todas las cosas terribles que ha visto y que le han sucedido, todavía elige sonreír, confiar y amar.
 

I totally agree with u bro, i love kelsier and i dont understand why people hate him

[Frustration]

22 hours ago, elsoberanok said:

I totally agree with u bro, i love kelsier and i dont understand why people hate him

I don't think anyone hates him. Many just perceive him as villainous.

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Just chiming in with my two cents. Kelsier is both the hero we deserve, and the hero we need right now.

[Letryx13]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:05 PM, KnightsOfHonor said:

***disclamer*** I am basing this off what we see of him in the books.

Kelsier to me seemed like someone who “would rather trust and be betrayed then never trust and never have friends at all”. He loves and cares for his team and has to be talked out of pushing himself too far to try and save people on several occasions. For example, when (forget his name) takes the army they were building and attacks, Kelsier was going to try and save them but gets told “you can’t save everyone kel” and he really takes that hard. He has no love for evil people and does not hesitate to eliminate them one way or another, but who thinks evil should not be eliminated? He is very ruthless in his methods at times, but he is living in a ruthless world. I think that is more of a commentary on just how bad things are on Scadrial and less on how bad Kelsier is. I guess I don’t really understand where all this “Kelsier is evil” or “Kelsier is a bad guy” comes from. The reputation he seems to have on this site is vastly different than what seems to be presented in the books. To me he seems like a man in a hard, rough world making hard, rough decisions. But despite all the hard things he has had to do, all the terrible things he has seen and had happen to him, he still choses to smile, to trust, and to love.
 

I agree with Sanderson's descriptions of Kelsier. Even in WoA, Vin notes that Kelsier sacrificed himself in a way that played into his sense of grandeur, ensuring people would remember him for centuries, and she even calls him out on how much his motivations were selfless as opposed to selfish at the end of Secret History.  I respect that he started channeling his energies toward helping the ska, but even then, it was as much about himself and revenge as helping them. 

My brother thinks he'll likely end up being the villain of a future MistBorn era.  Part of me wants that, but in a way that ends up with him playing more to his emotional side. Sanderson describes his way of writing as coming up with an epic moment, and doing whatever is needed to get to that.  I want someone to confront Kelsier, asking, "Do you still represent that which can not be destroyed? Are you still hope?" as a way to get through to him. Dramatic, but that's why it's perfect for Kelsier.

[agrabes]

I personally think Kelsier gets too positive of a rep in fandom.  I think Sanderson has been pretty clear that Kelsier is an egomaniacal person who only did things we would consider "good" to bring glorification to himself and serve his own personal desires.

The easy comparison is The Lord Ruler, who is a great foil for Kelsier.  While Kelsier did good things for bad motives, The Lord Ruler did bad things for good motives.  Kelsier was clever enough to understand that the best way to achieve his personal revenge and glorification was to build up a popular uprising around himself.  He was not particularly motivated by improving the life of the skaa (though he did say that he was) because he frequently took actions which made life worse for them.  On the other hand, The Lord Ruler was dumb and thought that the only way he could save the world was to lock it down and use draconian policies to force people to act in the way he wanted.  He was not a good person either because he allowed and even encouraged evil things. 

I think what we'll see from Kelsier in future cosmere books is to make it even more clear that Kelsier is only out for himself.  We'll see clearly on screen that everything he has done is for his own personal advancement.  I don't think he'll necessarily be a villain - we'll see him as a neutral third party in context of whatever the great struggle of the cosmere turns out to be.  He will at times be at odds with our heroes whenever their interests come in conflict with his.  We've already been seeing this so far from "Thaidakar" in SA4.