Do each of the shards have an emotional counterpart?

[LiftisaDragon]

Hi first post:

I am playing with a theory that 8 of the shards are simple “actions” (for lack of a better word), and each share an emotionally tinted counterpart. I’m not sure how this related to a theory I view as essentially guaranteed, that the 16 shards are split into 4 groups along the intents of the dawnshards. 
 

Ruin: Odium

Invention: Whimsy 

Valor: Ambition

Honor: Devotion

Preservation: Survival (not confirmed)

Cultivation: Dominion

Autonomy: ???

Endowment: Mercy

One note on endowment/mercy… I think this may be a case of a shard(s) having a slightly “broader” Intent than the specific name would imply. I believe this is supported by the mechanics of Returned being brought back to life for specific purposes…. Perhaps something more along the lines of Legacy etc. additionally if you really wanted to stretch it, Mercy is holistically something along the lines of Blessing, Grace, or Compassion, which I think tracks with emotionally charged components of Endowment.

Of course, could just be a mercy-killing pyscho… we will see. 
 

Let me know what y’all think.

One edit note: this also might support why Roshar Spren are so similar to Sel Seon/Skaze. The Roshar Shards & Sel Shards are in some ways mirrors of each other, and that might be reflected in the magic manifestation.  

Edited September 12, 2022 by LiftisaDragon

[lukaash]

Hello and welcome. I think this is a fantastic idea of how to sort them. If the coppermind is correct, the last shard should be similar to wisdom or prudence. Maybe it is something along the lines of isolation. That would go with Autonomy, and then this matching system would work. Perhaps the last shard is "wise" because it wanted to stay alone forever. Another small thing that made me laugh is that you correctly put Odium on the emotional side, but Rayse would totally disagree.

[Mr. Misting]

7 hours ago, LiftisaDragon said:

Ruin: Odium

Invention: Whimsy 

Valor: Ambition

Honor: Devotion

Preservation: Survival (not confirmed)

Cultivation: Dominion

Autonomy: ???

Endowment: Mercy

I like this idea but I would do a lot of these very differently, here is my improved(?) list:

Ruin: Whimsy (I think Ruining things just for the sake of it has kind of a whimsy feel to it, but yeah its a tenuous connection at best.

Invention: Virtuosity (Both these shards are about creating something, invention could totally be seen as a art form)

Valor: Odium (Valor has a very crusade-y, conquest feel. Totally Odium's jam)

Honor: Dominion (Honor is all about binding his following and placing rules on them, Dominion fits great)

Preservation: Wisdom/Prudence (not confirmed) (Preserving things seem wise, I don't know. Wisdom and Ambition feel interchangeable with how I did it, it is very ambitious to have everything in statis and not change.) 

Cultivation: Devotion (These two fit very well, helping your followers grow and progress in a loving way, its too good)

Endowment: Mercy (This one is perfect I don't even have to defend it)

Autonomy: Ambition (I think I Bavadin might be ambitious and not Autonomy in general, switch it with Wisdom if you want.)

As for the theory itself, I don't know. I think that it is a interesting way to group the shards and you found a good connection between the action and emotion shards. Interesting idea but I don't think it holds a lot of merit.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mr. Misting

[Yumiya]

I am not seeing the division quite the same way (btw have you read the SP3 preview yet?). I don't feel that dominion, survival or whimsy are actually emotions.

The way I think of it is the shards can be divided into pairs of opposites.

Mercy (granting forgiveness even when rules are broken) vs Honor (following the rules regardless of situation)

Survival (choosing to protect your self over others) vs Valor (risking your life for others) 

 

Spoiler

(SP3 shard here) vs Invention (creating something useful)

Whimsy (doing something just because) vs Ambition (doing something for a goal)

External Shard Pairs:
Endowment (handing others a solution) vs Cultivation (helping others find the solution on their own)

Dominion (controlling others) vs Autonomy (controlling yourself)

Ruin (destroying) vs Preservation (preventing destruction)

Odium (hatred) vs Devotion (love)

 

8 minutes ago, lukaash said:

Rayse would totally disagree.

Why? Rayse claims to be Passion, which is defined as strong and barely controllable emotion.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Yumiya

[LiftisaDragon]

yumiya I can’t quote you bc I’m new, but I agree completely with what you’re saying; I think shard opposites are a reasonable fleshed out part of the cosmere. I’m trying to go at it from the other way: how are they similar. 
 

As a bit of background, this stemmed from the similarity between Rosharian and Selish magics. 
 

I actually wasn’t aware of SP3, but I think it still works. Invention seems like a natural pair to virtuosity, and Autonomy & Whimsy may not be a horrible pairing. To me, whimsy connotates an “blind to the outside world” sort of etheric (not in the cosmere sense) independence, a la Luna Lovegood or the Chershire Cat. 
 

So:

invention - virtuosity

autonomy - whimsy

[Lego Mistborn]

17 hours ago, Mr. Misting said:

I like this idea but I would do a lot of these very differently, here is my improved(?) list:

Ruin: Whimsy (I think Ruining things just for the sake of it has kind of a whimsy feel to it, but yeah its a tenuous connection at best.

Invention: Virtuosity (Both these shards are about creating something, invention could totally be seen as a art form)

Valor: Odium (Valor has a very crusade-y, conquest feel. Totally Odium's jam)

Honor: Dominion (Honor is all about binding his following and placing rules on them, Dominion fits great)

Preservation: Wisdom/Prudence (not confirmed) (Preserving things seem wise, I don't know. Wisdom and Ambition feel interchangeable with how I did it, it is very ambitious to have everything in statis and not change.) 

Cultivation: Devotion (These two fit very well, helping your followers grow and progress in a loving way, its too good)

Endowment: Mercy (This one is perfect I don't even have to defend it)

Autonomy: Ambition (I think I Bavadin might be ambitious and not Autonomy in general, switch it with Wisdom if you want.)

As for the theory itself, I don't know. I think that it is a interesting way to group the shards and you found a good connection between the action and emotion shards. Interesting idea but I don't think it holds a lot of merit.

Might want to put something in spoilers for SP3, to help those who want complete surprise when it comes to reading the books

Spoiler

Virtuosity

 

16 hours ago, LiftisaDragon said:

yumiya I can’t quote you bc I’m new, but I agree completely with what you’re saying; I think shard opposites are a reasonable fleshed out part of the cosmere. I’m trying to go at it from the other way: how are they similar. 
 

As a bit of background, this stemmed from the similarity between Rosharian and Selish magics. 
 

I actually wasn’t aware of SP3, but I think it still works. Invention seems like a natural pair to virtuosity, and Autonomy & Whimsy may not be a horrible pairing. To me, whimsy connotates an “blind to the outside world” sort of etheric (not in the cosmere sense) independence, a la Luna Lovegood or the Chershire Cat. 
 

So:

invention - virtuosity

autonomy - whimsy

You might want to as well.

[teknopathetic]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:41 AM, lukaash said:

Hello and welcome. I think this is a fantastic idea of how to sort them. If the coppermind is correct, the last shard should be similar to wisdom or prudence. Maybe it is something along the lines of isolation. That would go with Autonomy, and then this matching system would work. Perhaps the last shard is "wise" because it wanted to stay alone forever. Another small thing that made me laugh is that you correctly put Odium on the emotional side, but Rayse would totally disagree.

Just wanted to point out that while I agree Prudence is a likely shard, Brandon also has hinted at something like Anguish in a reddit WOB about 2 years ago. 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by teknopathetic

[lukaash]

On 9/15/2022 at 6:33 PM, teknopathetic said:

Just wanted to point out that while I agree Prudence is a likely shard, Brandon also has hinted at something like Anguish in a reddit WOB about 2 years ago.

Now that is something awesome that I never saw before. If the last shard is anguish, I think the theory falls apart. Anguish and Autonomy don't really go together and while Anguish and Ruin do, that pushes out Odium and Odium doesn't match with Autonomy either. 

[teknopathetic]

3 hours ago, lukaash said:

Now that is something awesome that I never saw before. If the last shard is anguish, I think the theory falls apart. Anguish and Autonomy don't really go together and while Anguish and Ruin do, that pushes out Odium and Odium doesn't match with Autonomy either. 

Deleted 

Edited September 18, 2022 by teknopathetic

[SwordNimiForPresident]

I only count three Shards associated with emotion, but assuming they come in pairs I can posit a fourth.

-Odium (hate) and Devotion (love)

-Valor (courage) and presumably some form of Fear, Terror, Horror or Cowardice.

None of the others we have seen so far are emotions. I always assumed that they came in complementary pairs so I grouped them like this:

-Ruin and Preservation (obviously)

-Cultivation and Whimsy

Those four are all some variation of change. Ruin being absolute change and Preservation being null change. Cultivation is ordered change and Whimsy is disordered change (basically chaos).

-Dominion and Autonomy

-Mercy and Justice, Vengeance or maybe Cruelty (again, assuming they come in pairs).

These four are related to authority. Dominion is absolute authority while autonomy is independence/freedom. Mercy and Justice both require authority in order to be enacted or enforced.

-Invention and Endowment

-Honor and Ambition

These four are about goals and motives. Invention is having the pieces and working towards the whole. Endowment is about having the whole and giving away the pieces. Ambition is about pushing boundaries in the pursuit of something while Honor is about staying within the boundaries. It is interesting that the German word for ambition is ehrgeiz, which literally translates to honor greed.

This is all just my take on it obviosly, and I had to make up two Shards in order for it to make any sense. Time will tell if it holds any water.

I do think it's interesting that it breaks down into four groups of four and that there are four Dawnshards. Given that one of my groups is related to change, and Change is one of the Dawnshards, I can't help but wonder if maybe the other other Dawnshards will be related to my other three categories (Emotion, Authority and Motive). Again, time will tell.

edit: Just one last thought I wanted to add. The Dawnshards and supposed to be primordial commands that Adonalsium used to create the Cosmere if I understand correctly. If I were going to give the Universe four commands to arrive at intelligent life, it would probably be something to the tune of "Change, Feel, Think, Organize", which in my opinion matches up pretty well with my four groups (change, emotion, motive and authority respectively).

Edited September 24, 2022 by SwordNimiForPresident