Inheritance among nobles in the Basin

[+Oltux72]

On a second glance, something strikes me as odd. When Wayne impersonates Waxillium's uncle, he makes it clear that he did not inherit the title because he is a maternal uncle. This is interesting linguistically, but it is also very odd in terms of inheritance of titles if we go by European standards. As far as Europe has accepted primogeniture at all, the title always advances into later generations, tht is the third child and his or her children inherit only if the first and second child and all their descendants are dead.
I cannot help but interpret Wayne to mean that this is not the case in the Basin, as Waxillium would either inherit anyway regardless of younger brothers of his uncle or not at all. Does this mean that titles will always go to the closest relative genetically speaking (genetically your brother is like your son and your nephew is like your grandson - leaving aside female inheritance as a separate issue for now). What does that mean for family structures? How common are nephews murdering their uncles on Northern Scadrial?

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

On a second glance, something strikes me as odd. When Wayne impersonates Waxillium's uncle, he makes it clear that he did not inherit the title because he is a maternal uncle. This is interesting linguistically, but it is also very odd in terms of inheritance of titles if we go by European standards. As far as Europe has accepted primogeniture at all, the title always advances into later generations, tht is the third child and his or her children inherit only if the first and second child and all their descendants are dead.
I cannot help but interpret Wayne to mean that this is not the case in the Basin, as Waxillium would either inherit anyway regardless of younger brothers of his uncle or not at all. Does this mean that titles will always go to the closest relative genetically speaking (genetically your brother is like your son and your nephew is like your grandson - leaving aside female inheritance as a separate issue for now). What does that mean for family structures? How common are nephews murdering their uncles on Northern Scadrial?

Wax's uncle is his father's brother.

Wayne was impersonating his mother's brother.

[+Oltux72]

Just now, Frustration said:

Wax's uncle is his father's brother.

Wayne was impersonating his mother's brother.

Indeed. But why does he have to mention that?

Now he could be the third brother on the father's side. But, let me quote it:

Quote

"On the mother's side!" Wayne said. "Not the Ladrian side, of course. Otherwise I'd be running this place, eh?"

Wayne is a decade younger than Waxillium. However good his disguise was, he still will not be an older brother of a man who has had a son of over forty years of age now. By age Waxillim's father must have been the older brother by a considerable gap under that premise. The implication of his explanation is that a brother on the other side would have inherited.

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

In most European primogeniture inheritance laws the mothers father would not inherit, obviously

In this system the current lords grandfather passes it on to his eldest. His eldest would usually pass it on to his eldest. It could be interpreted as Wayne not comprehending politics but that seems awfully sloppy for Wayne. It could also be that Waxillium would not have returned to the city if he thought somebody else could lead the house. He only came because he felt like he had to. I think that the last is the most likley answer

[+Oltux72]

28 minutes ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

In most European primogeniture inheritance laws the mothers father would not inherit, obviously

Right. Wayne chose a relation that would not inherit. The problem is his exact wording.

28 minutes ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

In this system the current lords grandfather passes it on to his eldest. His eldest would usually pass it on to his eldest.

Yes. There are systems on Earth which do not obey this rule, but that is immaterial. Edwarn had no children. Inheritance has to go into the collateral line through or to a sibling of Edwarn's.

28 minutes ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

It could be interpreted as Wayne not comprehending politics but that seems awfully sloppy for Wayne.

Yes. I think we can rule that out.

28 minutes ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

It could also be that Waxillium would not have returned to the city if he thought somebody else could lead the house. He only came because he felt like he had to. I think that the last is the most likley answer

No. I am afraid not. This is Wayne speaking to a third party, who who not know that. The remark is supposed to create familiarity. It must not seem strange.

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

oh then I guess inheritance must just be different.

[+Oltux72]

21 hours ago, HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES said:

oh then I guess inheritance must just be different.

But how different? Waxillium's father was Edwarn's younger brother, wasn't he?

[cometaryorbit]

I wonder if it's not an ironclad rule like primogeniture and more a "pick a heir" system, so Wax wouldn't be chosen over a Ladrian uncle since he was off in the Roughs. 

There's some continuity with the Final Empire noble houses; they might have avoided a primogeniture type ironclad rule so they could prefer Allomancers over non-Allomancers, or perhaps the obligators wanted inheritance to be non-automatic so they had another lever over the nobility.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

I wonder if it's not an ironclad rule like primogeniture and more a "pick a heir" system, so Wax wouldn't be chosen over a Ladrian uncle since he was off in the Roughs. 

There's some continuity with the Final Empire noble houses; they might have avoided a primogeniture type ironclad rule so they could prefer Allomancers over non-Allomancers, or perhaps the obligators wanted inheritance to be non-automatic so they had another lever over the nobility.

There were a few times in era 1 where they talked about naming heirs.

[cometaryorbit]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

There were a few times in era 1 where they talked about naming heirs.

Ok. I remembered a comment in WoA that the obligators wouldn't allow Straff to pick Zane over Elend because Zane was illegitimate, but couldn't remember if that clearly stated that "picking a heir (out of the set of legitimate potential heirs)" was how it worked, or just meant that Straff wouldn't be allowed to bypass the normal succession rules.