All Feruchemical powers revealed *Cosmere Spoilers and Discussion*

[Kurkistan he/him]

I was thinking of Caton of Inquisition, but found it too punny to post Mister is the cat in Jim Butcher's Dresden Files.

I see. We shall have to evaluate whether or not he possesses the necessary qualities to lead our prestigious institution boldly into the future.

I'm disappointed that I can only upvote this once.

Thank you kindly.

[Satsuoni he/him]

You people forget several things 1. The spikes do not have to be very large.. or rod-shaped for that matter. You can make an armor spiked on the inside, you can implant mini-spikes along bones (as long as they pierce muscle a little), hemalurgic teeth and scull (like Kurkistan's avatar probably has), although the bind points have to be considered..

Also, why limit oneself to paltry 33 spikes? Let's see: 2 spikes for each allomantic power (for the boost, coppercloud piercing, etc)(32), 2 for each Feruchemy power (same reasons)(32), 5 for strength (i want my cat stronger than a Koloss!), at least 7 for intelligence (I want a cat smarter than a Koloss, you know), say, 2 for identity (I am guessing that will have with sanity issues some. I am also assuming that what can be stored can be stolen, and that is large assumption), and, say, around 13 other spikes for other attributes (endurance, regeneration, breath holding, sense enhancement, what have you),and let us not forget 1 (yes, only one. No need to have 2, since I want to preserve normal sight too) steel (i think) spike for Ironsight. That will give .. let us see.. around 92 people killed for one walking Cat of pure AWESOME. Bring on the SpiKat!

P.S For additional awesomeness, using only Atium and , possibly, Lerasium spikes is preferred. (We know that Atium can steal all powers).

P.P.S. Brandon must know about this idea. Let us all beg him to include the Great Caton of Inquisition in the sequel!

[EDIT] This seems to go off topic. I think I'll just make another thread devoted to the Cat Inquisitors in Mistborn.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Satsuoni

[Thor he/him]

Edit: Changed post so it is less thread derailing (at first glance, anyway...)

Spoiled for off-topic shenanigans on Cat Inquisitors:

You knew they were coming:

I'm sure someone else can come up with better captions/pictures. This was the best picture that I could find on short notice...

You people forget several things 1. The spikes do not have to be very large.. or rod-shaped for that matter. You can make an armor spiked on the inside, you can implant mini-spikes along bones (as long as they pierce muscle a little), hemalurgic teeth and scull (like Kurkistan's avatar probably has), although the bind points have to be considered..

Also, why limit oneself to paltry 33 spikes? Let's see: 2 spikes for each allomantic power (for the boost, coppercloud piercing, etc)(32), 2 for each Feruchemy power (same reasons)(32), 5 for strength (i want my cat stronger than a Koloss!), at least 7 for intelligence (I want a cat smarter than a Koloss, you know), say, 2 for identity (I am guessing that will have with sanity issues some. I am also assuming that what can be stored can be stolen, and that is large assumption), and, say, around 13 other spikes for other attributes (endurance, regeneration, breath holding, sense enhancement, what have you),and let us not forget 1 (yes, only one. No need to have 2, since I want to preserve normal sight too) steel (i think) spike for Ironsight. That will give .. let us see.. around 92 people killed for one walking Cat of pure AWESOME. Bring on the SpiKat!

P.S For additional awesomeness, using only Atium and , possibly, Lerasium spikes is preferred. (We know that Atium can steal all powers).

P.P.S. Brandon must know about this idea. Let us all beg him to include the Great Caton of Inquisition in the sequel!

Bah, 92 is small change: you only want 29 basic Allomancy spikes as Aluminum=fail (Gold is worth keeping since you can use TLR trick for Health; Identity...not so much) and more than 1 spike for Chromium seems redundant on the Allomantic side (it may be worth doubling up for TLR trick for Fortune), though you do want at least 1 spikes each for Allomantic and Feruchemical Atium (2 each for the increased precognition/age-storing). Now, lets get dangerous REALLY crazy and add to the fun every god-metal alloy: 32 for Feruchemy, 32 for Allomancy and (based on the tables we now have) another 16 "Human" powers (may be something else entirely) on the Hemalurgy side (8 powers from each metal, 16 in total; the other 16 total powers are, presumably, for stealing these alloys.)

Total spikes are thus (The numbers on the left are the number of total spikes that one gets from doubling up on spikes and the ones on the right are the more practical/what Satsuoni said numbers):

32/29 Basic Allomancy (Doubled up, all normal metals but Aluminum and only 1 Chromium spike)

32 Basic Hemalurgy (Doubled up, all normal metals)

4 Atium (2 each for Allomancy and Feruchemy)

4 Lerasium (2 each for Allomancy and Feruchemy: may not be possible, just putting it here for completeness sake)

2/5 Human Strength (For Koloss-like base strength!)

4/10 Fortitude Abilities (5 each of Mental and Emotional fortitude: because, lets face it, this cat will have ISSUES!)

2/5 Human Senses (Why not?)

8 Four Human Abilities (Doubled up again, based off the gaps on the Hemalurgy tables.)

32 Atium-Alloyed Allomancy (Doubling up on each spike as before, 16 alloys from all normal metals; some may be thrown out if they are deemed worthless.)

32 Lerasium-Alloyed Allomancy (As AAA)

32 Atium-Alloyed Feruchemy (As AAA)

32 Lerasium-Alloyed Feruchemy (As AAA)

16 Atium-Alloyed Human Abilities (Doubled up, 8 Abilities: rational is above)

16 Lerasium-Alloyed Human Abilities (As AAHA)

4 Lerasium-Atium Alloy Allomancy and Feruchemy (If possible, and, of course, doubled up)

Therefore, the grand total of spikes is <drumroll> 252/261!!!!! (And each of them throbs in time with its heart...ouch.) A two year old skaa with a bag of Brass or Zinc dust could take over this thing, even with no Allomancy! Now we need to kill 252/261 people... LET THE SLAUGHTER COMMENCE!

Also, with a little math, we can now see that there are at least 126 unique abilities that you can steal with Hemalurgy. on Scadrial alone

Distribution of these abilities is thus:

16 Normal Allomancy

16 Atium-Alloy Allomancy

16 Lerasium-Alloy Allomancy

16 Normal Feruchemy

16 Atium-Alloy Feruchemy

16 Lerasium-Alloy Feruchemy

2 Atium Allomancy and Feruchemy

2 Lerasium Allomancy and Feruchemy

2 Atium-Lerasium Alloy Allomancy and Feruchemy

8 Normal Human Attributes

8 Atium-Alloy Human Attributes

8 Lerasium-Alloy Human Attributes

There may be two more if Lerasium and the Atium-Lerasium Alloy can steal a Human Attribute (with pure Atium being the only thing that can steal the Allomantic and Feruchemical versions of the two metals, instead of, for example, a Lerasium spike being required to steal the Lerasium Allomantic/Feruchemical abilities. This would free up 2 more Human Attribute abilities, creating a total of 128 possible abilities, which is a much nicer number than 126.)

Cosmere Spoilers

There may not be that may "Human Attributes." It has been speculated by others that the Atium or Lerasium-Alloys of the normal metals may be required to steal the other forms of magic in the Cosmere.

On-topic: The list is great! Hopefully the powers will get explored more in AoL and the next trilogy. Though, slightly related to the information in my off-topic Wall O' Text, I do wish we could get tables for the god metal alloys...I am really curious to find out what they can do.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Thor

[Satsuoni he/him]

Ok, i've made a separate topic for the Caton. Please post your ideas/pics/suggestions there

Also, for Thor: well, yeah,maybe you can take that over, and maybe, with enough mental fortitude you can protect oneself somewhat.. But you still has to see THAT coming and react in time I am guessing that seeing a cat with 261 spikes will send most people in shock, and with the speed boosting trick, that will be enough time for the Kat to pwn you completely.

Also, we don't know what those powers are, and where to get mistings for them so let us limit ourselves for now.. but leave enough space on the body for the additions

[EDIT] More on topic. I think that, judging from the wording, the Investiture in this case is "the status of being filled with part of the Shards power", that is, using a certain ability in case of allomancy. In such case, storing it would work like this : you are burning metal, but not getting any effects. Then you can get a lot of effects at once, or control the rate much better than you would with just burning. Same for the shardblades: they contain a small piece of shards power in them, in effect using it constantly, and thus are Invested, and the same for Breath- you infuse something with the Shards power forcing it to use it. Yet allomancer is only Invested when he/she is burning something.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Satsuoni

[Quantum Toast he/him]

I think that the author of the Ars Arcanum is a member of the Seventeenth Shard from Sel, most likely Raoden, who is making the list as an entry in a sort of encyclopedia of Investiture in the Cosmere.

I was thinking Raoden too. Considering how much he was reading about AonDor, he does seem like the type who'd be interested in how magic works on other worlds.

[Shardholder of Craft]

Really? I thought it seemed obvious that it was Harmony talking.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Am I the only one who's surprised that Copperclouds protect the emotions of everyone within the cloud, not just the Smoker? I thought that the original Mistborn trilogy spelled out that only the Smoker him/her-self was immune from emotional Allomancy.

You are correct.

[Zarepath he/him]

Anybody else disturbed by the writer's stance that Hemalurgy isn't evil and is probably the most useful to the Cosmere when it involves stabbing magic users and killing them? That's some moral ambiguity right there.

I'm fascinated to see Hemalurgy on a Cosmeric scale, however. Would you have to use Scadrial metal spikes, but then you could use them on a Returned or an Elantrian... and then would you have to stick the spike back into someone from Scadrial, or could you stick it in anybody on the Cosmere?

[Eric]

Anybody else disturbed by the writer's stance that Hemalurgy isn't evil and is probably the most useful to the Cosmere when it involves stabbing magic users and killing them? That's some moral ambiguity right there.

I forget where precisely, but we have since learned that you can create Hemalurgic spikes without killing the target. Which removes a big part of the "evil" stigma. Considering it can then be used as a non-lethal punishment for magic-using criminals and turned around to empower the police force equivalent, I'd have to say it has a very strong argument for not being inherently evil. Just most commonly used for evil.

[Arcanist Lupus he/him]

I forget where precisely, but we have since learned that you can create Hemalurgic spikes without killing the target. Which removes a big part of the "evil" stigma. Considering it can then be used as a non-lethal punishment for magic-using criminals and turned around to empower the police force equivalent, I'd have to say it has a very strong argument for not being inherently evil. Just most commonly used for evil.

Except that even when the spike doesn't kill a person, it still rips out part of their soul.

Hemalurgy requires that you take something from somebody else. If take it by force, I'd consider your use of Hemalurgy evil, but if the power that Hemalurgy steals is freely given with permission, than I wouldn't consider it evil. However, getting permission is probably rather rare.

Hemalurgy encourages "evil" usage, which is different from most* of the systems, which don't require anything to be taken from somebody else, but it doesn't require it.

*The most similar system would be Awakening, but Breaths can not be taken, they must be given, so that prevents most abuse of the system.

[Aiken Frost he/him]

*The most similar system would be Awakening, but Breaths can not be taken, they must be given, so that prevents most abuse of the system.

Except that a person can be tortured into giving his breath.

[TheBobs he/him]

Except that a person can be tortured into giving his breath.

And somehow Nightblood seems to take (my) Breath away ... by force.

Edited January 6, 2012 by TheBobs

[FeatherWriter she/her]

And somehow Nightblood seems to take (my) Breath away ... by force.

Wow. Now all I can think of are realllllllyyyy nerdy pick-up lines using Awakening and taking my Breath away. Haha/

[Arcanist Lupus he/him]

Except that a person can be tortured into giving his breath.

Thus using Awakening for evil. It's still possible, just harder.

[Soother he/him]

Just because they must be given, does not imply they must be given freely. one could be coerced or tortured to transfer their breath

[the95th]

i thought the spikes to steal most investitures had to pierce organs? that would result in death surely?

And the only way inquisitors survived was because the spikes twisted the body in a similar fashion to the Darkhor in Elantris.

Speaking of which, if feruchemy can store investiture, does that mean for a length of time the feruchemist is really un economical at feruchemy and then when its tapped becomes really economical, for instance when tapped tapping strength is twice as effective. Sort of like duralinium for Allomancers but for feruchemists.

Like if you tapped investiture and speed of mind, you could solve any problem within seconds.

And to store it all your abilities are twice as hard to store.

for instance to store speed

To store speed normally your speed is decreased by 200%

To store an investiture in speed it is decreased by 400% but it means you can tap it and have the increase of speed but for twice as long as normal while only having to store it for half the time. for instance a 800% speed boost would last as long as a 400% speed boost. and a 1000% strength increase will last as long as a 500% increase.

Basically, Duraluminium for Furchemy.

Or am i way way way off topic

Edited January 9, 2012 by the95th

[Aradel he/him]

Storing investiture basicly drains one of your metalminds of it's charge, and stores it in your nicrosilmind. That new charge can be exchanged for charge in any other metalmind you have access to.

Ex: fill a pewtermind with strength, then drain it into your nicrosil mind, then convert it and fill your steelmind instead.

I think it means that nicrosil ferrings are kind of like gnats since they can't access any other metal. Twinborn with access to nicrosilminds may be able to store their allomancy.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[the95th]

so in theory, you could contastantly store something easy like weight and convert the storage into health? wow well that would certainly make feruchemists a lot harder to kill.

[Musicspren he/him]

I think it means that nicrosil ferrings are kind of like gnats since they can't access any other metal. Twinborn with access to nicrosilminds may be able to store their allomancy.

I'm going to venture a guess (although I have little other argument to support it) that they aren't just gnats, because their Ferring name is Soulbearer. That's a far too interesting way to say "gnat," when the term "gnat" presumably existed already for those with nearly useless powers.

[the95th]

I'm going to venture a guess (although I have little other argument to support it) that they aren't just gnats, because their Ferring name is Soulbearer. That's a far too interesting way to say "gnat," when the term "gnat" presumably existed already for those with nearly useless powers.

plus 1

[Aradel he/him]

I'm going to venture a guess (although I have little other argument to support it) that they aren't just gnats, because their Ferring name is Soulbearer. That's a far too interesting way to say "gnat," when the term "gnat" presumably existed already for those with nearly useless powers.

Wow that got shot down quick. You're right, there's no way "soulbearer" translates to "gnat" .

So what would the benifit be of only storing investiture? They don't have other metalminds they can transfer the power to, unless they can use it to fill someone else's metalmind?

Edited January 10, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Satsuoni he/him]

Wow that got shot down quick. You're right, there's no way "soulbearer" translates to "gnat" .

So what would the benifit be of only storing investiture? They don't have other metalminds they can transfer the power to, unless they can use it to fill someone else's metalmind?

Um.. I had a theory over here. I guess the topic name is off, though.

[Aradel he/him]

Um.. I had a theory over here. I guess the topic name is off, though.

I would have thought that they can't use investiture for any power they couldn't use without it. Their spiritwebs wouldn't be shaped for it.

The theory does make me wonder whether they can affect Human Attributes with investiture. Hemalurgy can steal them, and it's a safe bet that those attributes are rooted in the extra 'spark of preservation' found in all sentient life forms. So I think those attributes would fit your description of passive investiture and are subject to nicrosil feruchemy.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Goradel's Nephew

[Satsuoni he/him]

I would have thought that they can't use investiture for any power they couldn't use without it. Their spiritwebs wouldn't be shaped for it.

The theory does make me wonder whether they can affect Human Attributes with investiture. Hemalurgy can steal them, and it's a safe bet that those attributes are rooted in the extra 'spark of preservation' found in all sentient life forms. So I think those attributes would fit your description of passive investiture and are subject to nicrosil feruchemy.

I don't know. Possibly. It is just that a bit of pure Preservation (Lerasium) gives you access to all Allomantic powers, so my guess is that all Scadrial residents have rudimentary Allomancy, it is just not developed enough, or not strong enough, so a good boost of Investiture may strengthen them enough for usage. And yes, Human attributes are Passive Investiture in my definition (not a very good definition, but whatever goes). I don't think it is possible to store it directly, although the name Soulbearer seems to suggest that one may be able store his soul, temporarily reducing the amount of Preservation (and probably losing sentience for the duration, amongst possible side effects).

[Aradel he/him]

I don't know. Possibly. It is just that a bit of pure Preservation (Lerasium) gives you access to all Allomantic powers, so my guess is that all Scadrial residents have rudimentary Allomancy, it is just not developed enough, or not strong enough, so a good boost of Investiture may strengthen them enough for usage. And yes, Human attributes are Passive Investiture in my definition (not a very good definition, but whatever goes). I don't think it is possible to store it directly, although the name Soulbearer seems to suggest that one may be able store his soul, temporarily reducing the amount of Preservation (and probably losing sentience for the duration, amongst possible side effects).

I'm still not sold on investiture giving them access to allomancy. Feruchemy utilizes both ruin and preservation in equal amounts, becoming end nuetral. The raw investiture they store should be Harmony, not preservation. Unless they pull it from a source that's mostly preservation...

...like human attributes...

You're right, a tricky nicrosil ferring might be able to store enough pure Preservation enable themselves allomanticly. But they'd have to be clever, know what they're doing, and have a lot of raw Preservation.