Crafting A Soul

[Trusk'our]

I read a quote from Brandon Sanderson that it was possible for people to fabricate Spiritwebs (unfortunately, I couldn't find the quote ), so obviously I had to come up with at least a few different ways that it might be accomplished. Also, because I'm me, it mostly involves the use of Hemalurgy.

Method 1: Stabbing someone repeatedly. Okay, so Hemalurgy is able to rip off chunks of functional Spiritweb that can be stapled onto another Spiritweb to hotwire the recipient's Spiritweb in such a way that it can access the ability held within the donor's Spiritweb. However, Hemalurgy also takes some other stuff in addition to the power or attribute removed, such as the person's Identity. Therefore, if someone were to use Hemalurgy on someone who could regrow the lost pieces of Spiritweb, maybe they could take from multiple bind points on the Spiritweb, then smelt the spikes together to create a full Spiritweb. Staple that soul onto a viable body, such as that of a Lifeless, and you have copy of that person (presumably).

Method 2: Forging a fake soul . . . and then stabbing someone. So, you're not satisfied with simply making a copy of a Spiritweb that already exists, are you? Well, if you could use Selish Forgery to create a Spiritual overwrite, you could that use Hemalurgy to take that and then staple that into a viable body. We already know that it is possible to Hemalurgically spike off a Forgery, so this would likely be an improvement to method 1, as it would cause less damage to the donor and would allow you to create a Spiritweb that you could edit more before creation. 

Quote

Questioner

If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

We actually worked this out. *laughter*

Questioner

Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts?

Brandon Sanderson

So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know--

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but Hemalurgic duralumin is probably the metal you'd want to use to create your soul, as it focuses specifically on taking Connection and Identity, rather than only taking the dregs of those two attributes.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

unfortunately, I couldn't find the quote

Was it this one?

Spoiler

Questioner

A Spiritweb is composed of a bunch of chunks that are added based on certain circumstances. Could you manufacture Spiritweb patterns out of raw Investiture in such a way that, instead of cutting something from someone and grafting it to someone else, actually manufacture the chunk desired from Investiture and put it on the person?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They don't know how, but you could. Synthetic meat, synthetic souls, possible.

 

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

then smelt the spikes together

This doesn't work:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Treamayne
Content, Formatting

[Some Random Spren]

If its the same metal on the spike you could try stack the attributes on one spike, not sure how successful that would be tho

[Honorless]

Also, stealing multiple attributes from the same person might not be possible

Spoiler

Aerlion

Is it possible to use Hemalurgic spikes to steal multiple attributes from the same person?

Brandon Sanderson

No. At least, this isn't thought to be possible

General Signed Books 2018 (March 20, 2018)

Regardless, creating a patchwork Spiritweb from multiple pieces might not result in anything... stable

Forgery + Hemalurgy sounds like a much more viable option.

[Trusk'our]

20 hours ago, Treamayne said:

This doesn't work:

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full.

I meant that you would take multiple duralumin spikes and take different chunks of Spiritweb from the same person after they used some form of Investiture to heal, then smelt them all together. I would assume that since they shared the same metallic composition that they wouldn't have their power made inert. Also, they share the same Identity, so that should help make them compatible too.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Trusk'our

[Duxredux]

Well... Brandon did write a Cosmere book about creating an artificial soul, though I'm not quite sure how this lines up with what sections of the Spiritweb were lost. I'm taking an alternate route to crafting a soul.

What do we think Ashravan lost upon death and the subsequent healing of his former body? What was created with Shai's stamp in recreating the Emperor's Soul? Can the new Ashravan persist and grow in the same ways as if he was alive, including gaining Invested abilities if he were to go worldhopping? What happens if he gains an Invested Healing ability that can heal the damage done to his Spiritweb, such F-Gold through Hemalurgy?

What happens if you take an obscure braindead person, heal them to full physical function, then write a compelling soul to stamp on to the person and send them on their way to form new Connections and relationships with other people, stamping themselves as often as they need to? The new persona should become more and more believable and plausible as time goes on, right? That seems viable. If that works, what happens if you start with something that just looks like a person but never was?

I might argue that Returned are artificial souls, and there's a parallel between their needing Investiture on a weekly basis to persist and Ashravan needing to be stamped on a daily basis to persist.

[Milk]

12 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Well... Brandon did write a Cosmere book about creating an artificial soul, though I'm not quite sure how this lines up with what sections of the Spiritweb were lost. I'm taking an alternate route to crafting a soul.

What do we think Ashravan lost upon death and the subsequent healing of his former body? What was created with Shai's stamp in recreating the Emperor's Soul? Can the new Ashravan persist and grow in the same ways as if he was alive, including gaining Invested abilities if he were to go worldhopping? What happens if he gains an Invested Healing ability that can heal the damage done to his Spiritweb, such F-Gold through Hemalurgy?

What happens if you take an obscure braindead person, heal them to full physical function, then write a compelling soul to stamp on to the person and send them on their way to form new Connections and relationships with other people, stamping themselves as often as they need to? The new persona should become more and more believable and plausible as time goes on, right? That seems viable. If that works, what happens if you start with something that just looks like a person but never was?

I might argue that Returned are artificial souls, and there's a parallel between their needing Investiture on a weekly basis to persist and Ashravan needing to be stamped on a daily basis to persist.

Ashravan can't go Worldhopping, since his Soulstamp would fail outside Sel, but Hemalurgy would work.

From what I can tell, there are two possible states that Ashravan could be in.

1) His soul has left the body, and the Forgery is essentially a more impressive Lifeless.

2) His soul is still Connected to the body, but the Resealers couldn't heal the brain to the Cognitive/Spiritual aspect because Selish healing is bad. I have no idea what'd happen with better healing.

Returned are Cognitive Shadows, and Ashravan is not one. You could see CSs as artificial souls, though, if you believe that they are bits of Investiture fit into the mold of a deceased person.