Returned Expanding Their Power?

[Trusk'our he/him]

I believe that there is a WoB states that one of the reasons the Returned feed on the Breaths of children rather than older people is so that they have more vitality from that Breath (I couldn't find it, I'm sorry). Theoretically, could a Returned consume more investiture than was just necessary for their survival, and somehow be expanded in their power by doing so? I don’t mean by collecting more Breaths on top of their Divine Breath, but if they actually “ate” the extra investiture. Would this be similar to larkin, and how they seem to grow after consuming large quantities of investiture?

[Treamayne]

On 1/3/2022 at 8:01 PM, Trusk'our said:

I believe that there is a WoB states that one of the reasons the Returned feed on the Breaths of children rather than older people is so that they have more vitality from that Breath (I couldn't find it, I'm sorry). Theoretically, could a Returned consume more investiture than was just necessary for their survival, and somehow be expanded in their power by doing so? I don’t mean by collecting more Breaths on top of their Divine Breath, but if they actually “ate” the extra investiture. Would this be similar to larkin, and how they seem to grow after consuming large quantities of investiture?

Warbreaker Annotations Ch 3

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Lightsong Feeds on the Child

Why a child? It doesn't much matter, truthfully. An adult, or even someone elderly, could provide a Breath that would keep a god alive.

But the Breaths of those who are aged aren't as vigorous as those of those who are young. If Lightsong were given one of those to feed on, he'd survive for another week—but he wouldn't feel as vibrant or alive as he does after feeding on the child's Breath.

The people of Hallandren are faithful. Even if Lightsong himself doesn't believe, they do, and they want to provide the best for him. Hence they use children. Old enough to know what they are doing, yet young enough to give a powerful, vibrant Breath to their god.

I would guess this is a RAFO, but there do not seem to be any indications that investiture other than breath would be transfered when receiving a breath upon which to feed. As far as "consuming more" is concerned, the act of consuming a breath to maintain "life" does not seem to be voluntary so I can't see how they would consume two (or more). Also, there is no indication that the consumed breaths affect their spirit web or total investiture. 

I see it more as: Person A has a normal breath, Person B might be in great shape (runs marathons, eats right, whatever) and has a vibrant breath, Person C has allergies and some health problems and has a less vibrant breath. On any give "feast day" when each (in successive weeks) donate that breath (they all only have 1 breath - the breath just has a quality in addition to quantity) then the Returned receiving that breath feels the same (or similar) as the person who donated it (before dontation of course). That "quality" becomes the Returned's breath "quality" until the next week when another is consumed - but that quality is not actually changing any investiture levels or spirit web attributes.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Treamayne

[Duxredux he/him]

This seems relevant. Looks like Returned consuming Investiture is somewhat separate from possessing a Divine Breath and is instead related to being a Cognitive Shadow. The follow up question then would be if a Returned can then "expand their soul" to the point that they do not need to get their weekly Breath to persist as Cognitive Shadows? I'm not sure.

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Haverworthy

Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath?

*https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath.

General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020)

 

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Duxredux said:

This seems relevant. Looks like Returned consuming Investiture is somewhat separate from possessing a Divine Breath and is instead related to being a Cognitive Shadow. The follow up question then would be if a Returned can then "expand their soul" to the point that they do not need to get their weekly Breath to persist as Cognitive Shadows? I'm not sure.

 

That makes me wonder if the method of gaining a body in the physical realm impacts if/how much investiture needed to be consumed to retain that body. Have we seen any evidence that Helalds need to consume Stormlight to remain in their physical shells?

[Duxredux he/him]

8 hours ago, Treamayne said:

That makes me wonder if the method of gaining a body in the physical realm impacts if/how much investiture needed to be consumed to retain that body. Have we seen any evidence that Helalds need to consume Stormlight to remain in their physical shells?

Apparently not, but this might be because they were directly powered by Honor and so had more direct access to Investiture, considering Brandon's phrasing of his answer. We'll see if this changed after Honor's death, though I think that they still are powered by Honor, considering Nale's Surgebinding during the Weeping in Edgedancer.

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Oversleep (as Droga Królów)

Do the Heralds need to consume Investiture in order to stay in their body?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Good question. Excellent question. They're asking if they're like Returned and they need to consume a Breath each week.

Read For Pixels 2018 (Sept. 1, 2018)

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Steeldancer

The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.

Steeldancer

Like Vin and Elend?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.

Steeldancer

The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

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Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There was a point when the Heralds didn't need to draw Stormlight from gems, although the Stormlight-in-gems predates Honor's arrival.

There was a following conversation about this topic, about how a lot of the elements were there before Honor arrived, but he co-opted them. So, Stormlight were there, but there are big differences now.

Footnote: Unspecified question by Pagerunner.
Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)