A few questions about combining Forgery and Hemalurgy

[Trusk'our he/him]

Would a forgery that was stolen and then granted by a hemalurgic spike be more permanent so long as it isn't allowed to decay? What's more, can forgeries held in spikes be granted to people other than those it was specifically made for, since hemalurgic spikes normally hold the Identity of those they were made from, and that doesn't seem to hinder their usefulness to others who don't share the Identity of the spike?

[Honorless he/him]

I think they would still decay, and then you'll just be left with a patchy Spiritweb. That wouldn't be very Ruin-y of them if they made stuff that wasn't permanent permanent.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Honorless
edited for clarity

[Brgst13]

I would say no.  Forgery temporarily overwrites the Spiritweb while hemalurgy permanently changes it.  Also as far as I know the essence of the thing stolen does not change.  I would think of it like this: If I had a temporary tattoo and gave that part of my skin to someone for a graft, that tattoo will still wash off.  It doesn't become permanent just because it was given to someone else.

[Quantus he/him]

 

Based on this WOB is sounds to me like the Forged Spiritweb would function like a "normal" one.  So I think it would be permanent, since the Investiture is being housed and managed by a permanently implanted Spike instead of the more temporary Stamp that needs recharging.  The Spike would still decay if removed from Blood, etc.   

 

 

 

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Questioner

If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

We actually worked this out. *laughter*

Questioner

Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts?

Brandon Sanderson

So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know--

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

 

 

[Dunkum he/him]

10 minutes ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

Based on this WOB is sounds to me like the Forged Spiritweb would function like a "normal" one.  So I think it would be permanent, since the Investiture is being housed and managed by a permanently implanted Spike instead of the more temporary Stamp that needs recharging.  The Spike would still decay if removed from Blood, etc. 

This is sort of what I would expect from this. once the investiture is no longer attached to your spiritweb, the inertial forces trying to revert your spiritweb to normal no longer apply to it, so the spike investiture remains stable, or at least as stable as any spike. I am a bit more curious about the "your own soul will have less damage" part. it sounds like, because the spike took mostly the forgery overlay, that your own spiritweb would be less affected.  I'm really curious if you spiked out something that you normally wouldn't have had at all would you end up with a completely undamaged spiritweb after it finished rejecting the forgery?  and if you re-stamped yourself later on, would the stamp still function the same way?  I'm assuming it would.

so given all that speculation, if you could reliably spike out something without killing the donor, could you use forgery and hemalurgy to create a renewable source of certain specific types of spikes? maybe throw some regrowth in there to heal from the physical damage of the spiking.