Bavadin's minds and their origins

[Ixthos]

This post is a quick attempt to list possible origins for Autonomy's avatars. Brandon has said he likes Autonomy, and I think that is because Autonomy allows for him to generate new shard-like characters who can have widely varying personalities as well as form pantheons, all on new planets, and so can expand worlds and systems in the Cosmere as needed, while still having the core focus on the main 16, with one of those 16 being able to fill in multiple roles. That still doesn't explain where those minds come from, though.

 

The poll above hopes to find out - and also propose - options that seem the most likely. On Yolen, did Bavadin start with one mind, or several (as each mind would crave the chance to be free of the others)? If one, when Bavadin took up Autonomy, did Autonomy make Bavadin form avatars, and would do so for anyone who took it up? If several, did each personality become an avatar, and was Trell one of them? Or does Autonomy grant this to others, such as a minor character on Taldain, or make new avatars as the situation requires it? Can it be a mixture?

 

What are your thoughts? :-) And do you think Trell is a rogue personality? Did Trell come from Taldain, or are the names on Taldain derived from Trell rather than the other way round? Okay, enough questions :-P

[Elsecaller_17.5]

Well it seems most people agree with my assumption (originally one mind and crafts a new mind each time) I do think it’s possible that Trell is a rogue avatar. And least when working thorough Paalm he is advocating complete freedom, borderline anarchy which could definitely be seen as a twisted version of Autonomy.

I suspect that that formation of Avatars is Bavadin, not Autonomy, because the two ideas seem to clash a little bit. Autonomy would want to be a single whole, so she doesn’t have to work with others. I’d suspect it’s a Ati/Ruin situation where he had a strong enough will to change the interpretation of Ruin from a nuclear warhead to a natural entropy. Bavarian could have reasoned that with split personality’s each can act autonomously without comprising.

And a question for you @Ixthos, do we have confirmation that she has MPD? Obviously she has multiple personalities, but is there the actual mental illness in there? I’d think the shard would erase the difficulties of MPD at the very least.

[Calderis]

I checked single mind originally, and options two and three for the second. 

Personally I think there's still only one "Bavadin" just multiple Autonomy's all linked Spiritually. Whether she empowers a person, or makes something like Patji, I think she reaches out through the Spiritual and empowers or crafts an existing mind around a portion of her power. 

Purely speculation, obviously, but I don't think this is something that other shards would be incapable of. 

[Ixthos]

@Truthwatcher_17.5 Lots of people agreeing doesn't mean anything ;-) :-P And you are right in that there isn't any confirmation as to Bavadin either once having had multiple personality disorder, or even that Bavadin currently has, but there are hints, and I am convinced this is the case. To elaborate on why I think they originally had multiple personality disorder:

• Hoid and the letter: The letter indicates that Autonomy is several individual minds, and indicated that Hoid approached the wrong person - but who would Hoid have been trying to reach - he hasn't had much contact with other shards for a long time, and there is no hint that he spoke to any of them since they took up their shards. If Bavadin already was several people, this could explain it - in short: "you tried to talk to someone you knew, but you got the wrong one of us, and we all already know you", therefore before Bavadin took up the shard Bavadin had several personalities.
• Shallan and the end of Oathbringer: Shallan seems to be splitting into several people, each real and distant, and Lightweaving seems to reinforce this effect, both causing her mind to split and making those other people "real". With the power of a shard, and if I am right and Bavadin might have been another Lightweaver Hoid knew on Yolen, then this could be foreshadowing or a parallel, and even more realised
• Eric: I don't want to spoil White Sand Prime, but if you've read it I think you know what I am getting at.
• Mental illness: Brandon has been exploring mental illnesses and disorders in his writing, and I think one of the things he is doing is exploring how abnormal mental processes can be affected by investiture. What would be more interesting then the results of someone with multiple personality disorder taking up a shard?
• Unique situations of taking up a shard twist: He already have had a unique ascension with Sazed, and I think Stormlight will end - or involve - another, with multiple individuals and their spren taking up a shard. It can make each unique, so rather than a repeat of Hero of Ages, it is something with a twist - first two shards combinding together into a power that invests the land (Sel), then one person taking up two shards (Scadrial), then maybe ten people taking up 1/2/2 and a bit/3 shards (what I think will happen on Roshar), maybe an object taking up another shard or an entire city as the corpse (Silverlight), and then on Yolen in Dragonsteel - in addition to the others, as people taking up shards would be something we would have seen in the Cosmere already - we see an example of one body with several wills taking up a shard. All speculation, yes, but still interesting.

I agree it isn't much, but it does make me think that is a direction Brandon might take the story, and it could explain what is happening.

 

@Calderis There probably is only one Bavadin, but if Bavadin had multiple wills, only one would be Bavadin, the rest would probably use different names or call themselves as different things - and that is a fair point you are speculating on :-) I think it would make sense, as either a property of the shard itself, such as Preservation can only listen, Ruin can only talk, and as other restrictions the shard places on the person who has it, such as the increasing pressure to go against the shard even if otherwise someone could force Preservation to cause harm it resists that and the longer it is held the less it can be made to act against its nature - it could be Autonomy has a compulsion to do this, and other shards have a compulsion not to.

 

I know this hasn't been proven, it is just something I think is likely, due to hints at Autonomy and its activities, foreshadowing from how Brandon is exploring interesting situations and edge cases, his interest in exploring mental illnesses and its impact on investiture and investiture on mental illnesses, and the possibility it gives for a unique type of taking up of a shard, one of several I think he will explore.