RShara Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 There seem to be some interesting parallels between Memories and different types of beings in the cosmere. It seems like memories and sentience are the easiest thing to lose any time there's Cognitive dissonance. Obviously, memories are stored in the Cognitive DNA. For instance: Kandra and Mistwraiths vs Returned and Lifeless. If you spike a mistwraith, it becomes a kandra. Do you think if you spike a Lifeless, it could gain sentience, and maybe even memories (either it's own or from the spike-donor). A spike seems the easiest way to bridge the damage between Physical and Cognitive, though I'll bet there are others that we haven't seen yet. Some other instances that have come up: Seons whose bonded were taken by the Reod. Spren transitioning from the Cognitive to the Physical Realm (they leave their memories behind?). Dalinar and the memories of his wife. Terrismen/women when they put things into their copperminds. The Stormfather describes himself as "I AM THE MEMORY MEN CREATE FOR HIM, NOW THAT HE IS GONE." The Lightweavers and their mnemonic abilities, like Shallan's Memories. Any other instances that I missed? Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketek Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) Do you think if you spike a Lifeless, it could gain sentience, and maybe even memories (either it's own or from the spike-donor). Interesting question, but how would it interact with the stored Breath? You could say Scadrial's life forms are attuned to both Preservation and Ruin, not so much for something of Endowment, imo. A spike seems the easiest way to bridge the damage between Physical and Cognitive, though I'll bet there are others that we haven't seen yet. Probably because it's of Ruin, and thus 'destroys' the barriers blocking something from sentience. That's what I think, anyway. I would go so far as to say that Ruin is likely the most powerful Shard in terms of destructive force. Otherwise, I don't have much to say on the topic, besides that this may relate to the concept of humanity being God-given - something I wouldn't be too surprised to see coming from Sanderson. Edited April 24, 2014 by Ketek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardmancer Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Correct me if I am wrong but arent spikes a bridge the spirtual DNA- not the congnitive Dna changing the spirtual encoding allows for crossover effects and powers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Correct me if I am wrong but arent spikes a bridge the spirtual DNA- not the congnitive Dna changing the spirtual encoding allows for crossover effects and powers.. The official explanation for Kandra is that there is some sort of twisting or blockage in the connection between the physical and the cognitive, iirc. Spiritual aspects govern connections, so presumably they straighten that out. Koloss I believe are described as working opposite, the spikes distort their connection making them dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I think the spikes do a lot of things to all three types of DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I found this, another potential instance of investiture/memory interactions: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5009-returned-memory/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Wow that thread lost me about halfway through, but it's very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalagmite Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I would bet that a lifeless could become sentient with the blessing of presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Warbreaker explicitly says that the Returned's memories are "fragmented when they jump across the Iridescent Wave and come back to life." To me, this sounds exactly like the process of a spren leaving the Cognitive Realm. Which is cool, because I love the mental image of Lightsong standing in Shadesmar and making wisecracks to a bunch of Cryptics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Spren are unique to Roshar, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 Spren are unique to Roshar, sadly. Must you crush my dreams? We'll assume Lightsong went to the Rosharan version of Shadesmar, for no real reason, just for the lolz. Seems like something he might do anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardmancer Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The is an intresting connection Kobold... having fractured memories and sentience is defiantly an underlying plot withthin all his stories. As well as stories being changed and things not being the way they seem. So having some strange spiritual connection can definatly effect cross-cosmo world (we do know that there will be crossovers in the future) So why not some returned spren nahel bond.. hmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The is an intresting connection Kobold... having fractured memories and sentience is defiantly an underlying plot withthin all his stories. As well as stories being changed and things not being the way they seem. So having some strange spiritual connection can definatly effect cross-cosmo world (we do know that there will be crossovers in the future) So why not some returned spren nahel bond.. hmm I seem to recall someone claiming that the Returned are Splinters, like spren and Seons. Is this true, or does my memory betray me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardmancer Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Returned are of Endownment.. Part of them is invested. And since as everyone on Nathlis has breath.. (except for drabs) There is some type of investment in everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Divine Breath that the Returned have are splinters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 The Divine Breath that the Returned have are splinters. If the Divine Breath were left outside of a human, could it gain sapience? If so, then we must consider the possibility that the Returned are Nalthians who have "bonded" Divine Breaths, just as Surgebinders are Rosharans who have bonded spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted May 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 That sounds like it could be a good thing to ask Brandon. We do know that an inanimate object with enough Breaths does indeed gain sentience, but Divine Breaths are a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted May 1, 2014 Report Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have a whole theory about that, actually. It would nice to have it confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eri Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 If the Divine Breath were left outside of a human, could it gain sapience? It's a Splinter, so I think the answer is "yes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curiosity Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 If the Divine Breath were left outside of a human, could it gain sapience? It's a Splinter, so I think the answer is "yes". Doesn't a splinter need a mind to control it in order to have sentient sapience? A Splinter has power (Physical) and intent (Spiritual, I think). It needs a Cognitive aspect. I doubt that a mind would just pop into existence to control it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Doesn't a splinter need a mind to control it in order to have sentient sapience? A Splinter has power (Physical) and intent (Spiritual, I think). It needs a Cognitive aspect. I doubt that a mind would just pop into existence to control it. You are thinking of Shards, but that is not necessarily correct. Word of Brandon is that Splinters gain sentience spontaneously if left alone for long enough. Inductive reasoning from a variety of clues tells us that any Investiture of sufficient size will eventually gain sentience, including Shards (but Shards are always picked up quickly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curiosity Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) You are thinking of Shards, but that is not necessarily correct. Word of Brandon is that Splinters gain sentience spontaneously if left alone for long enough. Inductive reasoning from a variety of clues tells us that any Investiture of sufficient size will eventually gain sentience, including Shards (but Shards are always picked up quickly). Are Seons an example of this? Edit: Skaze too? Edited May 10, 2014 by Curiosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted May 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 I believe they are, yes. As are spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 And for an artificial version of the process, you have Awakened objects like Nightblood, with the Investiture of the Breath giving life to a Cognitive idea (the Command), just like spren are just Cognitive ideas with Investiture, and Seons just Invested, living Aons. The difference is that the artificial Nalthisian (Nalthian?) "spren" are stapled to a physical object (maybe like trapping spren in gems?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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