Queston/Theory: Corruption of Text [Mistborn Spoilers]

[Halabalabash]

So perhaps this topic has been brought up before, but I'm pretty new to the game and I haven't seen it, so I'm bringing it up myself!

We know that in Mistborn, Ruin was able to subtly change text so that it's meaning changed over time, requiring text to be written on metal to be preserved. Could a similar thing have happened/be happening on Roshar, only with Odium doing the tampering? This quote from one of Brandon's signings is what caused me to think about this:

"They do say that--well let's just say that some books exist in translation over the centuries with the primary text having been lost, or things like this." (This was in regards to the in-text book Way of Kings and its meaning over time).

Will writing on metal become a necessity in the future? Could this have anything to do with the origins of burning glyphs?

As a more side question, would it be possible to soulcast something into atium? My first thought was no because atium had to do with the power of Ruin, but thought I would ask about it because that could raise some interesting possibilities when worlds start to collide.

The requested edits have been made.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Halabalabash

[Vasteel]

Haha good theory, I believe that all the writings that were tampered with or changed had to do with the church altering everything to do with the Knights Radiant. However, I think Odium has much more control than Ruin ever did having to fight with Preservence; so it is a possibility.

 

P.s Atium is the metallic form of Ruin (which is why he's trying to find it so badly)

Edited April 22, 2014 by Vasteel

[Moogle]

I think it's a possibility that Odium is altering text, but I don't think he is. It would rip off Mistborn a little, and I think Odium was bound by Honor to be incapable of directly affecting the world, or something along those lines. Preservation was able to put Ruin in stasis, so Honor should be able to force Odium to obey a promise or something.

 

Also, small thing: could you edit your post title (go to the full editor to change the title) to mention you have Mistborn spoilers? When you're not in Cosmere Theories or the Mistborn boards, you're supposed to mark thread titles which have Mistborn spoilers.

[name_here]

There's some weirdness with spren and writing that makes me think Odium might not be able to tamper with writing, much like how Ruin couldn't tamper with metal.

[Haradion Drogon]

The Theocracy ended when the Priests were found to be changing their texts to suit their own beliefs... What if they weren't? What if that was Odium's sabotage? 

[woolhead]

The Theocracy ended when the Priests were found to be changing their texts to suit their own beliefs... What if they weren't? What if that was Odium's sabotage? 

Now that's a cool idea! 

 

I'm guessing Ruin's ability to alter text is because it requires only a very tiny amount of energy and because Preservation was in no state to revert/block any changes. Whether Odium can do the same would then depend on how much energy he is able to freely spend on Roshar, and how willing and able what's left of the other shards are to oppose that expenditure. I suspect that the way he's bound (the Oathpact) means he's only able to act on Roshar in very specific ways - altering writing may or may not be one of them, but it seems unlike Brandon to reuse an idea like that. 

[Eri]

I was thinking along those lines too. My thoughts:

 

What makes text Ruin-safe? Metal. Why? Because it's holy / a focus / whatever you name it.

 

What is Roshar's equivalent of metal? Gems? IMO it's symmetry. Most of the scripts are symmetrycal: glyphs and women's script, which mr T uses…

But that script on the map (people say it's Thaylen, I think it may be the sormwardens' script) is not.

I'd love to see a picture of Amaram's notes (the ones Shallan copied from his room BTW in a very similar way to what Sazed did in the something of Seran). If they aren't symmetrical… ^^

 

As for reusing his ideas – if the magics work in similar ways it would make sense for different Shards to use the same tricks sometimes. I doubt Ruin was the only one to think “hey, I can mass up the writings!”.

 

And if Odium is bound not to do that, we still have Cultivation left.

[Numb]

I feel it depends how bound Odium is. Ruin I think would never have done such a thing if he wasn't bound by preservation. When you have as much power as a shard why would you think of doing something so small. People will extreme power tend to always want to use it in extreme ways instead of smaller smarter ways. That's also why Vin was such a better allomancer than anyone else because she grew up without power so when she got power she used it in smarter ways than those that were accustomed to it. 

 

Everyone knowing the church altered text is actually something that would work against Odium if he was the one altering text. The reason Ruin was so successful with his alterations is that people believed in the original text in the first place. Only one man seems to have ever figured out what Ruin did before he was freed because noone else was looking for inconsistencies. Unless Odium did alter and the church figured it out so their response was to make everyone believe that they altered text so no text was viewed as credible. Seems a bit far fetched for me.

 

I hope I can leave semi-spoilers like that since the title says mistborn spoilers. If not please tell me so I can hide them.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Numb

[Halabalabash]

These are all good points.  As for Brandon re-using that idea, I agree that he generally doesn't do that, but we are also seeing more and more connections between the worlds, so I could just see Mistborn characters getting to Roshar and asking everyone why they aren't writing on metal.

[woolhead]

What makes text Ruin-safe? Metal. Why? Because it's holy / a focus / whatever you name it.

 

What is Roshar's equivalent of metal? Gems? IMO it's symmetry. Most of the scripts are symmetrycal: glyphs and women's script, which mr T uses…

But that script on the map (people say it's Thaylen, I think it may be the sormwardens' script) is not.

I'd love to see a picture of Amaram's notes (the ones Shallan copied from his room BTW in a very similar way to what Sazed did in the something of Seran). If they aren't symmetrical… ^^

 

I dunno if it's beyond the polite point for bumping this thread, but I really wanted to highlight this observation, because I think it's a fantastic one. I'm sure the Vorin obsession with symmetry won't turn out to be an arbitrary design decision by Brandon, but will have an in world reason behind it. 

 

On a semi related note, I'm curious about whether Cultivation and Honor's relationship will have something to do with the strong gender roles present on Roshar. 

[Numb]

Hoid does mention some essay or document that became the basis of the gender roles in Roshar. I'm not sure if that implies it was Cultivation that wrote it or someone else. From what he said it seems that the author just wrote down all the things she felt fun as what woman should do and everything violent as men.

[Aleksiel]

Szeth and the Shin consider stones holy and they have the Honorblades, so there's something about it. Zseth even thinks Urithiru's stones are the only ones it's ok to walk on.

 

I think there will be something similar to Ruin's influence, however I doubt it will be text-changing again. 

Edit: Could be the opposite in fact. Ruin couldn't influence metal, perhaps Odium can only influence through stone.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Numb]

The stones being holy may have something to do with how Roshar has no tectonic plates. If people started any large scale mining the continent would slowly be destroyed as the only thing currently keeping it alive is the highstorm dropping crem. It makes sense for this overtime to become something more holy/mystical than merely practical

[Aleksiel]

Then it would have been that way for everyone, but only the Shin consider them holy. It's Brandon, there must be more than tectonic plates.

[woolhead]

The stones being holy may have something to do with how Roshar has no tectonic plates. If people started any large scale mining the continent would slowly be destroyed as the only thing currently keeping it alive is the highstorm dropping crem. It makes sense for this overtime to become something more holy/mystical than merely practical

 

Then it would have been that way for everyone, but only the Shin consider them holy. It's Brandon, there must be more than tectonic plates.

 

I don't think that necessarily follows, Aleksiel, the trope of one race/nation being the only ones who remember some important truth (but perhaps in a distorted way) is quite common in fantasy. However I do think there's something more. Thunderclasts maybe? They seem like voidspren possessing stone, and there's been no mention of them possessing other substances - and two (that I recall) of them using stone. 

[Swimmingly]

Well, there's as the Midnight Essence

[Aether]

And what do you mean, two types of creatures made of stone?

[name_here]

The stones being holy may have something to do with how Roshar has no tectonic plates. If people started any large scale mining the continent would slowly be destroyed as the only thing currently keeping it alive is the highstorm dropping crem. It makes sense for this overtime to become something more holy/mystical than merely practical

 

I wouldn't worry about that. There's kind of a lot of rock in planets. Dropping the surface below sea level by digging would be a very lengthy process even if people set out to do that, and if they only mined in places actually containing valuable materials it would basically never happen.

[Numb]

I wouldn't worry about that. There's kind of a lot of rock in planets. Dropping the surface below sea level by digging would be a very lengthy process even if people set out to do that, and if they only mined in places actually containing valuable materials it would basically never happen.

 

That's what I thought initially but there are 2 massive storms that sweep through roshar constantly. The highstorms were balanced with crem but will the new everstorm be? 

[woolhead]

And what do you mean, two types of creatures made of stone?

 

 

there's been no mention of them [Voidspren] possessing other substances - and two (that I recall) of them using stone. 

 

I didn't mean two types of creatures, I meant two mentions of Thunderclasts as stone creatures - one in one of Dalinar's visions in WoR and one in the Prelude.