Theory on forming the Nahel Bond, Intent, and Squires.

[lichie]

This is an extension to the theories about squires found in this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/forum/54-words-of-radiance-discussion/

 

From the epigraph of chapter 54 of Words of Radiance, we have:

 

There came also sixteen of the order of Windrunners, and with them a considerable number of squires, and finding in that place the Skybreakers dividing the innocent from the guilty, there ensued a great debate.

-From Words of Radiance, chapter 28, page 3

 

This quote, combined with a quote from Dalinar’s vision at the Purelake,

 

“Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers,and surprisingly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.”

-Chapter 4 of (the real) Word of Radiance

 

heavily implies that loyal followers of a Knight Radiant can gain access to powers granted by Stormlight, and that the Windrunners are one of the Orders to have such squires. At the end of Words of Radiance, Lopen is able to absorb Stormlight and use it to heal his arm. I think it is pretty obvious that that this indicates that he is the first of Bridge Four to become a true squire. But that leaves the question of why he is the first. There is nothing to show that Lopen is any more loyal to Kaladin than any of the others in Bridge Four.

 

This leads me to reconsider the way the Nahel bond and its corresponding Oaths/Ideals work. We know from WoB that Perception and Intent are very important to Investiture in all of the books in the Cosmere:

 

Q:   So then that's why at one point Shallan requires ten heartbeats and now she doesn't.

A:   Right, just like — it's the exact same reason why Kaladin's forehead wounds don't heal, because he views himself as need— as having those, somewhere deep inside of him, and that can't heal until that goes away. And it's the same reason why in Warbreaker, when you bring something to life your intention, rather than really what you say, is what matters. It's all about perception.

 

So this is the meat of my theory: The Nahel bond is not about oaths, but Intent. The oaths, except for possibly the first Ideal, are not actually concretely defined, but representations of the Intent of each Herald. Each Herald/Order has a purpose but that purpose doesn’t necessarily have to be defined, but some Orders have additional Ideals defined to provide an explicit outline or reminder of their purpose. This is further supported by another section of the WoB:

 

Q:  How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

A:  There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan is a step higher than Kaladin.

 

Not completely sure on this one: He said that at one point Shallan may have said all the oaths for her order (or may have been capable of saying all of the oaths by the end of the book) but has since regressed due to "memory loss/repression."  

 

Regarding Dalinar: He said that Dalinar has had a bond with the Stormfather "for a while." He also only said one oath at the top of the Urithiru tower, not two. Dalinar conveyed a single idea in that particular oath.

 

Brandon also clarified that the oaths, with the exception of the first ideal, are not restricted to specific words. Rather, a specific idea must be conveyed for the oath to be accepted.

 

This is why at the end of Words of Radiance, Pattern tells Shallan that as a Lightweaver, she only has one Ideal; this possibly means that the Lightweavers (and maybe even Shallash herself) chose not to define their purpose in such a concrete way. Pattern implies that she has said all of the words that she is required to say, but still has truths (i.e. some aspects of the the full Intent of the Lightweavers) to fully discover.

 

This is why some spren are attracted to humans even before they even begin to say the Ideals. Sylphrena and Pattern both were attracted to Kaladin and Shallan because they demonstrated the true Intent of their respective Orders. Though we don’t know exactly what the Intent of the Lightweavers is yet, we do know the Intent of the Windrunners.

Kaladin’s progression through the Ideals of the Windrunners is very strong evidence for this theory. At the end of TWoK, he discovers and speaks the Second Ideal when acting upon the Intent that the Second Ideal was meant to describe. The same thing happens at the end of WoR when Kaladin acts upon the Intent of the Third Ideal. It is important to note that the Intent comes first, which then triggers the “discovery” of the Ideal. I believe that it isn’t the speaking of the Ideals that is necessary to become a full Radiant, but believing them and fulfilling them through action.

 

Now back to Lopen and the squires. Why just Lopen and not all of Bridge Four? Not only is Lopen loyal to Kaladin, but he has acted on the Intent of the second Ideal by protecting Elhokar. There is a bit of an assumption here because we don’t see what is going on in Lopen’s head, but I believe he has truly committed himself in protecting the King, and that is how he gained the ability to use Stormlight. The reason the other members of Bridge Four haven’t gained this power yet is because they haven’t committed themselves to the Intent of the Windrunners, and are still acting purely out of loyalty to Kaladin.

Edited March 29, 2014 by lichie

[Windrunning]

I'm pretty sure that at the end od WoR, Teft mentions to Kaladin that he saw other members of Bridge Four glowing during the battle against the Parshendi. It was possibly one of the reasons that Skar and Drehy(?) were able to hold Adolin, in full Shardplate, from falling off the edge of the plateau. So I don't think that it's just Lopen,

On the other hand (see my joke?), I could definitely see Lopen becoming part of a different Order of Knights Radiant.

[lichie]

I'm pretty sure that at the end od WoR, Teft mentions to Kaladin that he saw other members of Bridge Four glowing during the battle against the Parshendi. It was possibly one of the reasons that Skar and Drehy(?) were able to hold Adolin, in full Shardplate, from falling off the edge of the plateau. So I don't think that it's just Lopen,

On the other hand (see my joke?), I could definitely see Lopen becoming part of a different Order of Knights Radiant.

 

Ooooh I forgot about them catching Adolin. That would actually make a lot of sense.

[Haradion Drogon]

I recall that there were others on bridge four. I interpreted Lopen's scene as meaning he was a new Radiant. Was there an order dedicated to teaching that could fit with what Lopen has been up to.

[Zola]

I recall that there were others on bridge four. I interpreted Lopen's scene as meaning he was a new Radiant. Was there an order dedicated to teaching that could fit with what Lopen has been up to.

Maybe, but he didn't mention any strange spren being around.

I guess that could be introduced later, but I think he's probably just a squire. The first to intentionally use stormlight, but not necessarily a new order of radiant, since others from bridge four are also utilizing stormlight.

[Odium's_Shard]

My impression was that Lopen had become Knights Radiant, not a squire. He did not 'glow faintly', he directly and purposefully Inhaled a sphere's worth of Stormlight. Also, Kaladin was not around, and was not at that time leading him into peril. My impression of the squires was similar to the one in the passage:

 

 

“Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers,and surprisingly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.”

-Chapter 4 of (the real) Word of Radiance

 

In that if a Windrunner, or Knight Radiant, leads men into battle in defense of their Ideal, or who for that time express and represent the completion of the Knight Radiant's will, maybe be granted some of the benefit of Stormlight, or are temporarily Invested through the Knight Radiant's spren due to a gravitation in the Cognitive Realm (due to similarity of Intent).

 

Odium's_Shard

[Moogle]

My impression was that Lopen had become Knights Radiant, not a squire. He did not 'glow faintly', he directly and purposefully Inhaled a sphere's worth of Stormlight. Also, Kaladin was not around, and was not at that time leading him into peril. My impression of the squires was similar to the one in the passage

 

Your quote does not say that the squires glowed faintly. It just said they glowed more faintly than the Radiant, and if Kaladin is anything to go by, the Radiant was probably glowing very fiercely.

 

Lopen's radiance is never described, so we don't even know if he was glowing faintly or not. And why would his inhaling of an entire sphere matter for that anyways? Squires are apparently very inefficient Stormlight holders, so I'd expect him to need to inhale far more Stormlight than Kaladin to get a similar level of brightness.

 

If he's a Surgebinder, where is his spren? Why would he learn of his Stormlight ability the very same day that Kaladin spoke the Third Ideal and became capable of supporting squires? The timing is too coincidental.

 

And why would the squires have to be near the Radiant and in peril to inhale Stormlight? The books don't suggest that limitation.

 

I really don't think Lopen is a Surgebinder. I'd give him a 95% chance of being a squire with all the information available in WoR.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Moogle

[Odium's_Shard]

It was implied by Teft's comment, about the bridgemen glowing as Kaladin fought the Parshendi, that Kaladin was fully capable of supporting squires before he spoke the Ideal. Also, as for 'where is Lopen's spren', Shallan was able to use her abilities without knowledge of having a spren, so Lopen might never have remarked it (it was a short Interlude, after all).

 

And moving aside from semantics about exactly how 'faintly' Lopen or the squires glow...

 

My point was more that I feel squires are 'of the moment'. They are temporarily Invested by a strong expression of the Knight Radiant's Ideal, and his Intent to carry out that Ideal (such as Kaladin fighting the Parshendi in defense of Dalinar's army), and I assume only in proximity and on the understanding that they Intend to act upon the Radiant's Ideal at that time.

 

Because they are not bound by the Radiant's vows, and are likely to break these vows at any other time in a way that a Radiant cannot, I feel that they do not remain a squire (in this case, if they were to enact the Ideals, they might as well themselves become Radiant), but are only a squire for the duration of a concurrence of Ideals with their leading Radiant (for the duration of a battle in defense, for example).

 

EDIT: Added a point I forgot.

 

Odium's_Shard

Edited March 29, 2014 by Odium's_Shard

[Moogle]

It was implied by Teft's comment, about the bridgemen glowing as Kaladin fought the Parshendi, that Kaladin was fully capable of supporting squires before he spoke the Ideal. And moving aside from semantics about exactly how 'faintly' Lopen or the squires glow...

 

Kaladin spoke the Ideal before the fighting between Dalinar's army and the Parshendi started. Or, at least, he spoke it roughly around the time it started. Teft notices bridgemen glowing with Stormlight during that same battle. I'm not sure how you know that Kaladin was capable of supporting squires before then? The timeline supports it requiring the Third Ideal before it could happen.

 

 

My point was more that I feel squires are 'of the moment'. They are temporarily Invested by a strong expression of the Knight Radiant's Ideal, and his Intent to carry out that Ideal (such as Kaladin fighting the Parshendi in defense of Dalinar's army), and I assume only in proximity and on the understanding that they Intend to act upon the Radiant's Ideal at that time.

 

Okay, but you can easily work this into Lopen protecting the king at the time he breathed in Light and claim he was following Kaladin's Ideal of protecting people.

 

As an alternative to your theory on squires following certain Ideals, I'll offer this one as food for thought: the reason Surgebinders can access Stormlight and Surges is because they're bonded to a spren. Squires, who are bonded to the Radiant in a similar way (something to do with Feruchemical Connection?), can access Stormlight through him. But, because the spren control the Surges, they don't get to use Surgebinding, just hold Stormlight.

 

So, I'd predict squires can take in Stormlight anywhere at any time, so long as they're still following their Radiant and are devoted to him. That's their "Ideal": obey/follow/protect/worship their Radiant.

 

I'd also predict that you can have squires-of-squires, who can just barely hold Stormlight. They're people who are really devoted to squires. Perhaps the power drop-off is too high for this to be a thing, though.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Moogle

[Odium's_Shard]

Kaladin spoke the Ideal before the fighting between Dalinar's army and the Parshendi started. Or, at least, he spoke it roughly around the time it started. Teft notices bridgemen glowing with Stormlight during that same battle. I'm not sure how you know that Kaladin was capable of supporting squires before then? The timeline supports it requiring the Third Ideal before it could happen.

 

If we're talking about any Ideal, and not just the Third, then we'll just have to agree to disagree (though you are quite persuasive), but Lopen being a squire or not isn't too important at this stage. The last point I'll make about this is why Lopen was not able to have this ability before, despite being devoted to Kaladin, after Kaladin spoke the Second or Third Ideal.

 

Okay, but you can easily work this into Lopen protecting the king at the time he breathed in Light and claim he was following Kaladin's Ideal of protecting people.

 

Yes, I will concede this.

 

As an alternative to your theory on squires following certain Ideals, I'll offer this one as food for thought: the reason Surgebinders can access Stormlight and Surges is because they're bonded to a spren. Squires, who are bonded to the Radiant in a similar way (something to do with Feruchemical Connection?), can access Stormlight through him. But, because the spren control the Surges, they don't get to use Surgebinding, just hold Stormlight.

 

I would say that if the squire was 'tied' to the Radiant, they are tied because they express the same system of Ideals that Invest the Radiant in the first place. I would say that this similarity of Ideal could easily just come from following where the Radiant leads, or having them as a figure to whom you look up. It is interesting to think whether or not the squires can use Surges with their Light, but similarly to you, I would say not. Because the spren is tied in with the Cognitive/Spiritual presence of the Radiant, the transferal of Light to others would happen because of Cognitive (Ideological) proximity, from Radiant to squire (not through a spren, but through what I'm not sure). I don't think it would be similar to Feruchemy.

 

So, I'd predict squires can take in Stormlight anywhere at any time, so long as they're still following their Radiant and are devoted to him. That's their "Ideal": obey/follow/protect/worship their Radiant.

 

Perhaps they would remain 'linked' Cognitively, if they were still set on following the Radiant or performing the Radiant's wishes, which tie into the Radiant's Intention to express and uphold their Ideals. So the Ideal that determines whether the squire can hold Light is whether they're still acting on orders of the Radiant or to their perceived direction, so their actions lie in the same vein as those the Radiant is taking to uphold their Ideal.

 

I'd also predict that you can have squires-of-squires, who can just barely hold Stormlight. They're people who are really devoted to squires. Perhaps the power drop-off is too high for this to be a thing, though.

 

I'm not sure about squires-of-squires, as I feel that these people would merely be squires of the original Radiant. Though it would be interesting for me to note whether people that are following the orders or acting in the same direction as a squire who is performing deeds that mirror the Radiant's own desire to uphold their Ideal would be able to then hold Light (perhaps their ability to hold Light could be inhibited by their devotion to the cause of their Radiant, so while they are not squires-of-squires, they are much more temporary).

 

In my opinion, this talk of squires just conjures images of the Knights Radiant lead large armies into battle passing along superhuman abilities to their troops by allowing them to hold Light, and a large charge of infused infantry. Perhaps people performing heroic deeds could hold Stormlight due to their temporary affinity to an Ideal (if a Radiant of this Ideal was around).