Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 So we've seen that Lift can grow plants VERY quickly. I don't remember how much Stormlight it used at the time, if it mentioned it at all. I'm wondering if Lift could just carry seeds of different plant food, the rockbuds that provide grain, possibly ones that produce fruit. She's in a unique position where she creates her own Stormlight, and it is shown that half of one bread roll gives her a fair bit of stormlight. Do you guys think she could use a bit of Stormlight to create a source of food that provides her with more Stormlight than she used to make the food? This could be an amazing way to get around so many things! She would never have to worry about Weepings, being away from society and gems, she wouldn't be limited by how many gems she could carry, since she could fit a LOT of seeds in the same space gems would occupy. Also it could easily solve the problem of her metabolizing all of her food and body fat leaving her malnourished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truthwatcher Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 While it would be fascinating if she could do so, I doubt this is the case. It would be . . . incredibly powerful. Most likely the stormlight gained from the food would be equal to or less than the stormlight used to create the food. However, I have no evidence for this position, other than feeling like the ability to have a nearly infinite supply of stomlight would be a major loophole that could cause problems later on. But it could be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 We don't really know without knowing the ratio between stormlight/food/growth surge. It seems unlikely though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I think it will be somewhat similar to Compounding. Perhaps not now, but when Lift speaks more Ideals, her efficiency with Stormlight should increase to the point where this is possible. It doesn't seem quite as ridiculous as Compounding to me, because she can't really do much with it except slide around a lot and heal a lot of people. Maybe she could grow trees hundreds of feet high? Recharge people's spheres during the Weeping? It's not too ridiculous, so I could very well see this becoming a thing. The Stormlight doesn't come from the food, I think, though I could be wrong on that. I think it's more like Mistborn where the metals just act as a gateway for the power. Because of this, I think the intuition of not being able to get more Stormlight out than you put in could be wrong. Edited March 24, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The Stormlight doesn't come from the food, I think, though I could be wrong on that. I think it's more like Mistborn where the metals just act as a gateway for the power. Because of this, I think the intuition of not being able to get more Stormlight out than you put in could be wrong. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 440088880 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 No, I'm pretty sure that the food turns into stormlight. When she needs/wants it to. In her interlude, it's certainly implied... We'll have to wait a few books to find out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I personally don't really think it'd be acceptable if it was true. I know it's impossible to know because we don't know the ratios for anything at this point, and even two Chips of the same size and type are known to hold varying amounts of Stormlight, making the little knowledge we have sketchy at best. I just don't remember her having grown that small handful of seeds as being particularly draining on her already limited Stormlight supply, and eating (if I remember correctly) only half a breadroll gave her enough Stormlight to slide her way around the mansion and bring back whats his name from death or very near death. I know it left her very, very drained but from the amount of food she ate, it seems like she gained a fairly large supply of Stormlight. After all, even one seed could produce enough food for a full meal. It seems incredibly overpowered if it is possible to infinitely supply herself with Stormlight, but that's just sort of how things seem from what we were shown. *Edit* Going along with Moogle's comment though, it does seem less powerful than compounding metals, I hadn't even thought of that. I suppose if it is possible to have limitless supplies of health, age, strength, weight, etc, essentially making people immortal (among other things, depending on the combination) there's no reason why Lift, in her very unique situation, wouldn't be able to have a limitless supply of Stormlight. Edited March 24, 2014 by Levian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) No, I'm pretty sure that the food turns into stormlight. When she needs/wants it to. In her interlude, it's certainly implied... We'll have to wait a few books to find out though. I agree that she 'burns' her food/fat and she gets Stormlight (that much is clear), but I am just saying that I don't think the food turns directly into Stormlight. I think using up her food opens a gateway to somewhere else for the power to come through, just like the metals in Mistborn (Allomancers also think the power comes from the metals, but they're mostly wrong). Edited March 24, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I agree that she 'burns' her food/fat and she gets Stormlight (that much is clear), but I am just saying that I don't think the food turns directly into Stormlight. I think using up her food opens a gateway to somewhere else for the power to come through, just like the metals in Mistborn (Allomancers also think the power comes from the metals, but they're mostly wrong). Its pretty finicky terminology really. Stormlight is a form of energy. Food is a source of energy. Obviously food isn't Stormlight, but like in real life there are ways of converting one type of energy into another, or make something that runs off of one source of energy run off a different type of a different source. Basically like you said, there is something "magical" converting her calories into energy used to power her body into energy to power Surges. Although I'm not sure now. I don't think I remember at any point seeing Stormlight "leaking" from Lift. It doesn't really matter either way if converting her food or body fat turns into actual Stormlight, or just goes through some roundabout way of literally powering her Surges from calories, no Stormlight involved. She seems to be able to convert her stored energy at will, any time to directly power a Surge, so it's not like she has any risk of converting energy and leaking the Stormlight away. It wouldn't be like Kal absorbing as much Stormlight as he can hold - or more than is needed for, say one single Surge - and then having half of it leak out unused - she'll just automatically use the exact amount of energy required on a per Surge basis. Edited March 24, 2014 by Levian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I actually wonder if it's possible for Lift to hold excess stormlight. We don't know if she can obtain stormlight the normal way yet and it's possible that her boon is she can't so would that mean that she only uses exactly the amount of stormlight she needs for her surging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I actually wonder if it's possible for Lift to hold excess stormlight. We don't know if she can obtain stormlight the normal way yet and it's possible that her boon is she can't so would that mean that she only uses exactly the amount of stormlight she needs for her surging? I was wondering if she could use Stormlight the normal way as well. It could very well be that she could but just hasn't figured it out yet because she has always had a much easier way of obtaining the energy. It could very well be that the only negative part of her wish was that using food for Stormlight leaves her malnourished, at least on the meager diet she is able to currently supply herself with. But I see it as much more likely that the negative part was that she could only obtain the energy to use Surges through food. If she could just use gems like normal there really wouldn't be any disadvantage. She would use gems when available while having a healthy, properly nourished body, then just use stored body fat or food when she's out of gems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrindIf Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I just don't remember her having grown that small handful of seeds as being particularly draining on her already limited Stormlight supply, and eating (if I remember correctly) only half a breadroll gave her enough Stormlight to slide her way around the mansion and bring back whats his name from death or very near death. I know it left her very, very drained but from the amount of food she ate, it seems like she gained a fairly large supply of Stormlight. Hm, actually she got through the kitchen after sliding away, and ate at least one more sausage before Regrowing the young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The moment Lift teams up with Willy Wonka, it's all over. One Everlasting Gobstopper and we enter the Era of Eternal Awesomeness. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Its pretty finicky terminology really. Stormlight is a form of energy. Food is a source of energy. Obviously food isn't Stormlight, but like in real life there are ways of converting one type of energy into another, or make something that runs off of one source of energy run off a different type of a different source. Basically like you said, there is something "magical" converting her calories into energy used to power her body into energy to power Surges. It's actually a pretty significant question, because if the energy comes from the calories of the food she can only get an amount of stormlight equal to the calorie content of the food, but there's no such restriction for an external source accessed by burning calories. Then again, she could theoretically also do some straight mass-energy conversion and get far more energy than she could possibly ever need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I agree that she 'burns' her food/fat and she gets Stormlight (that much is clear), but I am just saying that I don't think the food turns directly into Stormlight. I think using up her food opens a gateway to somewhere else for the power to come through, just like the metals in Mistborn (Allomancers also think the power comes from the metals, but they're mostly wrong). I for the most part actually agree with you Moogle that it is similar to allomancy. The food/metal is a filter for rather than a direct conversion to the investiture. Wyndle's quote muddies that assumption a little though. "It is the only answer I can find to why you can ouch spren. And you can metabolize food directly into Stormlight." He seems to imply that it is a direct conversion but there is the possibility he doesn't fully understand the process either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I for the most part actually agree with you Moogle that it is similar to allomancy. The food/metal is a filter for rather than a direct conversion to the investiture. Wyndle's quote muddies that assumption a little though. He seems to imply that it is a direct conversion but there is the possibility he doesn't fully understand the process either. You're right, Wyndle does mess things up a little. I sense a question for Brandon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wyndle clearly has absolutely no idea how it works. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the specifics of what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) The moment Lift teams up with Willy Wonka, it's all over. One Everlasting Gobstopper and we enter the Era of Eternal Awesomeness. Don't you know Willy Wonka is Hoid. As for the case of coverting food to stormlight, I imagine the amount of energy she gets from it is equal to the amount of stormlight it takes to create food through soul casting. Edited March 24, 2014 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyring Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lift needs to eat up alot. Get a little bit fat. Be nice if things go wrong. Looots of awesomness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have a feeling being the emperor's friend and saving his life is going to provide Lift with a lot of food reserves before we see her next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Can you imagine what would happen if Lift got an honorblade now that we finally know how they work? Or better yet, Nightblood? I still want to know what would happen if Lift got a hold of allomatic metals. Edited March 24, 2014 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I agree that she 'burns' her food/fat and she gets Stormlight (that much is clear), but I am just saying that I don't think the food turns directly into Stormlight. I think using up her food opens a gateway to somewhere else for the power to come through, just like the metals in Mistborn (Allomancers also think the power comes from the metals, but they're mostly wrong). Well Feruchemy (bendalloy?) allows its user to store nutrition (turn it into investure) and later tap it (turning it back to its original state). It doesn´t seem to unrealistic that Lift can do the same and just use the created investure for something else. Also, from what we know speaking the second ideal gives a Stormlight boost. Healing the boy can´t be counted into her overall Stormlight usage and we don´t know just how much energy the friction surge uses for a good comparision. However, I doubt that Lift could win more energy from the food than she has to use to create it. Higher ideal progression may make it possible but unless we know more I´m gonna say that Lift needs Willy Wonka to get access to infinite awesome. Edited March 24, 2014 by Edgedancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) So, another thing I was thinking about is that Lift and Wyndle mention her using her fat reserves as well as food to gain stormlight. That sounds like it is a wholly different process than allomancy. You can't, to the best of my knowledge, burn the iron in your blood, the copper in your bones, the tin and zing in gland tissue, etc. If she can get stormlight from stored fat/carbohydrates then Lift doesn't get the stormlight from food, she gets it from breaking carbon bonds. I'm starting to lean towards it being a direct conversion now rather than a gateway. Edit: well... edgedancer's post about feruchemy causes more problems... I'll stop theorizing on this until we get a WoB. Edited March 24, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Actually, part of how Vin used her Allomancy originally was that she burned metals that built up as deposits from the drinking water in her body before she purposely ingested them. And WoB is that Allomancers could burn any metal that was Allomatically prepared in the right ratio so long as it was a part/within of the body, even if they were impaled by it. From the sounds of it Cultivation was thinking along the lines of Feruchemy's nuitrition storage as they could store food directly from food as well, they just kept on eating not even waiting to digest it I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Lift did it the same way. Edited March 24, 2014 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well Feruchemy (bendalloy?) allows its user to store nutrition (turn it into investure) and later tap it (turning it back to its original state). It doesn´t seem to unrealistic that Lift can do the same and just use the created investure for something else. You're right. Even worse, you can convert stored food to anything else with Feruchemical nicrosil, so... hrm. I take it back, perhaps Lift does convert food directly to Stormlight. But... that implies everything is made of Investiture, doesn't it? Why is she limited to food? Can she convert rocks? Why or why not? I have so many questions and so few answers. Someone should really ask whether Lift does directly convert food to Investiture at one of these signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) But... that implies everything is made of Investiture, doesn't it? Why is she limited to food? Can she convert rocks? Why or why not? Based on this WoB: Q: What is the realmatic composition of investiture?A: Investure is intended to be the building blocks of the cosmere so I would say for the most part it transcends the different realms. Probably more of the spiritual if anything but more accurately it transcends them. You might be on to something there. Edit: I think we just solved physics' unifying theory of everything. Edited March 24, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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