Seonid

Mid-Range Game 30/Anonymous Game 2: - Scadrian Black Ops

504 posts in this topic

@Fuchsia Ostrich It says in the sign up page that account swapping will be a new mechanic.

Quote

"this game will primarily be using the anonymous accounts to facilitate a new, experimental mechanic that will allow some roles to swap accounts with another player."

@Indigo Weasel I agree that the Kandra would have to be limited in some way. I guess the trick here is to not be too quick to trust anyone. In fact, if someone is a confirmed villager I would be more suspicious of them, rather than less. Something like 3 swaps seems reasonable enough, and I would argue that a person being trusted to give good reads would also be targeted, as mimicking someone who's trusted to give reasonable fingers of suspicion means that the Kandra can then falsify reads, or use the trust gained to assure us that someone else is the Kandra by claiming that they have a Seeker role, which they can't be accountable for when they swap bodies. Damnation, are we even sure that the Kandra is our only threat? :ph34r:

Edit: Ah, damnation. Ninja'd by two people. Once for the body-swapping and the other for the reads :lol:
Edited by Azure Mouse
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However, unlike the Anniversary Game, this game will primarily be using the anonymous accounts to facilitate a new, experimental mechanic that will allow some roles to swap accounts with another player.

So, what we know is that roles can swap accounts. We are assuming that would take a Kandra, because it is scadrial based.

I don't personally agree with the entirety of the Kandra Idea. If accounts are swapped, that seems like it's suggesting that Person A(Colorful Chameleon) wants to swap with person B(Vibrant Vipor), so both people just swap accounts. A Kandra usually consumes it's target, effectively killing it, that would suggest that Person B would become Person A, and Person B would just disappear, because there are now less players available.

I think the role swap mechanic may be performed by a role titled Kandra, but I don't think that it's a Kandra Mechanic. And I know this next part may go against what I already said, but if it's just a role swap, I expect that it may be both a village and an elim roll, or NAI. Of course, if it is a Kandra mechanic, then it's most likely just Elim, I think.

Or what if it's a role where one person decides to swap other people's roles/accounts? Maybe the role stays the same, but just the account swaps? Maybe when the account swaps, so does the entire role with it(Like a troublemaker from the OneNight Werewolf game.)

Edit: Ninjad by Azure Mouse:ph34r:

Edited by Indigo Weasel
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Woah! Double Ninja'd. You got Ninja'd by me who got Ninja'd with others.

Anyway, RP


turned to see an woman, beckoning him to join the little cluster of listeners she'd created. The lady appeared to have a bionic, which was nothing new. It appeared new generation. As he approached, he begun to hear what the woman was saying, talking about making a system of leaders and a council. found it interesting, until she spoke to him directly, telling him they needed every voice to help. leaned in at that, whispering to the woman, not wanting to scare the others, He wasn't the type to make speeches, but he felt his words had the effect he intended.

"That's all well and good, but my only fear is that helping too much is the exact kind of thing that'll get us killed. Believe me, my grandfather knew of these creatures. They were intelligent. And they could be any of us."

The words were true, troubling as they were. V's grandfather had always been the type to brag about their success, to bloat and be smug. But through his ramblings had found information, transcripts from another time. They depicted the monsters thought were here now, crawling through the ship.

No. had to survive. He had to get back to Scadrial. He needed to. Home was only a short while away, and every extra second in this stuffed hauler was a torment. Who would die next? Who would be the next victim, or as his grandfather had put it, the next meal.

Edited by Azure Mouse
Added RP
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37 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

First off, I would think that they have a limited amount of kills/swaps. Somewhere between 1 and 3 seems likely. That means they probably want to wait to use them until they can swap with a confirmed villager. If the kandra do have multiple, for example 2 or 3, then they might use the first at the end of D1, just to be able to actually use it, then save the others until later.

Hm. I was thinking more along the lines of the potential kandra being part of a standard elim team, and its kill acting as the standard elim kill. However you're right that the kandra having unlimited swapping power would make it somewhat OP. A limit on the number of swaps makes sense. 

And if this kandra isn't part of an elim team but is on its own with a separate win con, that's slightly worrying, because then we may have more than one of us kiled per cycle...

This is assuming -wow ok suddenly ninjad by two peeps- that there is an elim team out there.

 

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1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

In all seriousness though, I think it's important that we consider some elements of what this *possible* Kandra might be able to do in order to remain in balance.

First off, I would think that they have a limited amount of kills/swaps. Somewhere between 1 and 3 seems likely. That means they probably want to wait to use them until they can swap with a confirmed villager. If the kandra do have multiple, for example 2 or 3, then they might use the first at the end of D1, just to be able to actually use it, then save the others until later.

I've been thinking about the mechanic some more. My initial thought was that it's a serial killer role that would simply swap after every kill (so the first to die would be the Kandra, and then we'd see their kills with a cycle's delay) but there's other options as well, such as the one you describe.

I consider it less likely that the 'Kandra' is friendly to the village as any account-swapping mechanic seems to be inherently intended to allow the owner of the role to hide. There could be a faction with the express goal of killing the Kandra, which would allow for that role to be non-hostile to the village, but I won't assume that until someone gets lynched while being part of a faction that sounds like it might indeed be looking for a Kandra because of Occam's Razor.

Indigo weasel does bring up an interesting point about the swapping of accounts up. i suppose we'll know how it works in a cycle or two for sure, unless something about the swap mechanic incentivizes keeping it secret.

Edited by Melon Dingo
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Anyway, there's not much we can deduce unless the kandra tells us what they can do. But...I do see that Emerald Falcon was recently browsing and hasn't said anything, so I might as well throw the first poke vote.

@Emerald Falcon

Edited by Indigo Weasel
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Cool. Wait, I just got a genius idea. Y'all can thank me later. Basically, all of you, and I mean all of you, have a 'thing' that you put when you're writing. Maybe have two space after a full stop, or have a certain pattern to how many words are in each paragraph. Basically, make a subtle pattern that goes through all of your writing, and don't tell anyone what it is. This way, if a Kandra takes over your account and starts writing we'll be able to scrutinise your posts to oblivion and see a difference. Not foolproof, but not too shabby either, right?

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The only thing is that anyone can scrutinize our posts prior to becoming our doppleganger. If they figure it out, then it's over, or if you make it too difficult, then it's impossible to figure out by anyone. Also, we can only do that by constantly scrutinizing everyone else's posts the whole time. That seems like too much work to me personally. I just wish there was a more foolproof way, but I do think Azure mouse is right. We each should try doing something that might be telling. Too bad we can't PM anyone. But then, even if we could, during an account swap, I imagine the PM's would swap as well, so then the secret would be able to be found by going through the history.

46 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said:

Damnation, are we even sure that the Kandra is our only threat? :ph34r:

Azure brings up a good point here too. Obviously we need to remember, that there are elims. These are threats. I also suspect that there are scan roles, or village kill roles to help balance the game out a bit. Village kill can be a scary, when we don't know who to use it on, so that could potentially be a threat, unless we have confirmed villagers. There might also be the vote manipulation roles as well. I personally think that the vote manip roles might have been left out of this game to avoid confusion.

 

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15 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

unless we have confirmed villagers.

Unfortunately, having a 'confirmed villager' to not get killed by the village kill only leaves them open to be body-snatched. It's like these problems complement each other.

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So, if there is an elim faction, and the Kandra is not part of it, then what would the Kandra's victory condition be?

Also, couple of 'ifs' here...

If there is an elim faction, and if the Kandra is not part of it, and if Indigo Weasel's speculation from earlier is right, about the Kandra killing someone to consume/become them, then that means two kills per night, plus the lynch. Given those numbers, I don't think the villagers will have a kill. As it stands, with only 14 players, this could be over in 4 turns. A village kill could reduce that further, to three rounds.

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19 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

So, if there is an elim faction, and the Kandra is not part of it, then what would the Kandra's victory condition be?

Swap accounts with a certain number of players, I reckon?

All of this is heavy speculation though. We don't even know for sure whether a kandra exists. 

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1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Anyway, there's not much we can deduce unless the kandra tells us what they can do. But...I do see that Emerald Falcon was recently browsing and hasn't said anything, so I might as well throw the first poke vote.

@Emerald Falcon

Consider me poked.

My best guess to the Kandra’s win condition would be to remain undetected, or too swap a certain number of times. It could also be that the “village” and the “elims” (assuming we have either of the two) both have Kandras whose win condition is to discover each other. Maybe  one is an agent of Harmony, and the other is a rogue, and the agent of Harmony is trying to track the rogue Kandra down. Just sort of spitballing here.

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About the Kandra...

Based on the information from the books, we can probably assume that the Kandra are neutral or village (and no, I'm not the Kandra trying to convince you that I'm good).

EDIT: Ninja'd

Edited by Magenta Albatross
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Uhhh... non-anon player? I'm a little bit confused. You posted this from your main account. If you are playing, shouldn't you be on your anon account that was set up for you just for this game.

If I'm mistaken, and there is some odd game mechanic at work, then continue on as normal, please.

Edited by Indigo Weasel
protecting identity.
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I will do that, but at the same time, enough people might have seen it that it won't matter. It will also need to get edited in the post by that person who quoted me as well.

But I don't know if it matters, a whole lot, because there is pretty much NAI speculation in the post, and nothing more. Maybe.

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Just now, Indigo Weasel said:

I will do that, but at the same time, enough people might have seen it that it won't matter. It will also need to get edited in the post by that person who quoted me as well.

But I don't know if it matters, a whole lot, because there is pretty much NAI speculation in the post, and nothing more. Maybe.

I suppose you're right, but we don't know enough about the game to decide if anonymity matters with regards to the mechanics. Eh /shrug 

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Seonid did say that anonymity is only secondary. I suspect it's an anon game so that we can use the anon accounts, as opposed to actually switching (for example) Randuir's and Alvron's account. Could you all imagine the chaos that would ensue if rand was on alvron's real account, or vice-versa.

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Just now, Indigo Weasel said:

I will do that, but at the same time, enough people might have seen it that it won't matter. It will also need to get edited in the post by that person who quoted me as well.

But I don't know if it matters, a whole lot, because there is pretty much NAI speculation in the post, and nothing more. Maybe.

Both posts will probably be hidden anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. Though it’s going to be a bit weird for anyone who comes through the thread later.

Anyway, I’m just going to throw a vote on @Cream Tuatara cream Tuatara

1 minute ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Seonid did say that anonymity is only secondary. I suspect it's an anon game so that we can use the anon accounts, as opposed to actually switching (for example) Randuir's and Alvron's account. Could you all imagine the chaos that would ensue if rand was on alvron's real account, or vice-versa.

That image though, lol

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Too bad we can't upvote posts from anon players, because I would Like Magenta's post

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1 minute ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Too bad we can't upvote posts from anon players, because I would Like Magenta's post

You must be able to somehow, because I have 2 rep

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