speedburst Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here's a WoK question that's been nagging at me for a while... Why is Sadeas he the only character that is almost always referred to using his last name? Any theories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryshadium Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Sebarial and Amaram both are as well I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 What about Amaram, or Roshone? It's fairly simple actually IMO. Datkeyes only have one name, while lihteyes sons and heir are referred to with their first name - only family heads by their last. This is true in many fantasy and even in history. The only important lord referred to by his first name is Dalinar, likely because Kholin is also the name of the king, and because most POVs are on familiar enough terms with him. So... nothing out of the ordinary IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeiel Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Reading "Torol" or "Meridas" in WoR truly surprised me that I never wondered whether they had a first name back in WoK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 The only thing I find strange is Dalinar never referring to Sadeas by his first name and Sadeas calling him Dalinar most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Seems calling people by their last name is a sign of respect towards their status. Dalinar's first name being used seems to either be disrespect, which I doubt, or, as stated above, because they can't tall him by the name of the King's family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedburst Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 forgot about roshone/amaram and wasnt certain about the other highprinces. Not sure its done to follow fantasy naming conventions though. seems awfully disrespectful of dalinar and the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbauks Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 forgot about roshone/amaram and wasnt certain about the other highprinces. Not sure its done to follow fantasy naming conventions though. seems awfully disrespectful of dalinar and the king. Or shows familiarity. For some, calling Dalinar by his first name would be disrespectful (e.g. some random light eyes) whereas for others, it might just be because they know each other well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 forgot about roshone/amaram and wasnt certain about the other highprinces. Not sure its done to follow fantasy naming conventions though. seems awfully disrespectful of dalinar and the king. For 'naming convention' I meant calling a lord by his family name and other member by their given name (ex: in ASOIAF, Ned is 'Lord Stark' and his son Robb just 'Lord Robb') and kings are - and were in history - called by their names. Think Queen Elizabeth. And Dalinar has the same names as the king, so IMO is because of that, and because everyone knows who 'Dalinar the Blackthorn' is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think it's just a sympathy thing. People we know only by their last names are not as sympathetic to us as people with whom we are familiar. You'll notice it's the distasteful 'bad guys' that are primarily refered to as only a last name. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm pretty sure that there are instances in the books of people calling Dalinar "Kholin" when they're not calling him "sir" (Kaladin), "Brightlord" (Teshav and others), "Uncle" (Elhokar) or "Highprince." Unfortunately I don't have the book with me right now to check. We're just used to thinking of him as Dalinar because that's what the third person narration calls him, as well as his close family, so we start thinking that everyone calls him that the way we do. The vast majority of Dalinar's conversations in the books are with people who are close to him or subordinates, so there aren't a lot of places for him being called Kholin to crop up. Most people talking to Elhokar call him "Your Majesty", Dalinar alternates between that, "nephew" and "Elhokar". Sadeas and Ialai do call Dalinar by his first name in private conversations, but that could partly be to distinguish who they're talking about, and partly because Torol and Dalinar were on first name terms at one point, and the familiarity is comfortable. Looking at the Chapter 9 from the excerpts, I see that Aladar also calls Dalinar by his first name, and it's left unclear whether Aladar is his first or family name. The bridgemen in that chapter, incidentally, all use "Dalinar Kholin" when talking about him. In Chapter 12 a soldier refers to "Brightlord Kholin." In Chapter 14 the duel official uses Adolin's full name when announcing the bout. Shallan seems to call Dalinar "Brightlord Kholin" a lot. So basically all that to say, Dalinar does get called Kholin. There does seem to be some inconsistency in what the other highprinces call him as opposed to calling each other, but that may be explained by his formality/pursuit of the codes and their familiarity/friendship/lack of respect for him and that the Kholin family consists of both a king and a highprince. From a narrative standpoint, calling the other highprinces by first or last names interchangeably or switching it in the third person narration would make it harder for the average reader to keep track of who was who. Plus there's the sympathy thing that's already been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terra of Roshar Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 For 'naming convention' I meant calling a lord by his family name and other member by their given name (ex: in ASOIAF, Ned is 'Lord Stark' and his son Robb just 'Lord Robb') and kings are - and were in history - called by their names. Think Queen Elizabeth. And Dalinar has the same names as the king, so IMO is because of that, and because everyone knows who 'Dalinar the Blackthorn' is. (emphasis mine) I think this is it. House Kholin has two branches, the royal line and the line that rules the Kholin princedom. So Dalinar is referred to by his first name to distinguish him from the king. Also, Gavilar was Highprince Kholin for quite a while (not sure when exactly the reunification war was, but I got the impression that it wasn't too long before Gavilar's assassination, maybe like 10 years before that?). So Dalinar would just have been Dalinar the Blackthorn, rather than THE Highprince Kholin, so most of the highprinces were used to calling him Dalinar from before he became highprince, and just stuck with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Also, Gavilar was Highprince Kholin for quite a while (not sure when exactly the reunification war was, but I got the impression that it wasn't too long before Gavilar's assassination, maybe like 10 years before that?). So Dalinar would just have been Dalinar the Blackthorn, rather than THE Highprince Kholin, so most of the highprinces were used to calling him Dalinar from before he became highprince, and just stuck with that.It's got to be this. Upvote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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