The Parshendi are not Voidbringers (spoilers)

[Grayv]

I do not think that the parshendi are voidbringers because of this listener stanza

"’Tis said it was warm in the land far away / When Voidbringers entered our songs. / We brought them home to stay / And then those homes became their own, / It happened gradually. / And years ahead ’twil still be said ’tis how it has to be."

This means that Voidbringers are other creatures who "infect" the listeners.

On a side not, I found this while looking for above stanza, the listeners could change form before they met their gods, who I believe are odium Spren. I get these thoughts from this next stanza.

"The betrayal of spren has brought us here. / They gave their Surges to human heirs, / But not to those who know them most dear, before us. / ’Tis no surprise we turned away / Unto the gods we spent our days / And to become their molding clay, they changed us."

This one says that when the Spren left them to bind with humans, they turned to the odium Spren, their gods, and gained new forms.

The reason I believe that the odium Spren are their gods is because of this next stanza.

"Our gods were born splinters of a soul, / Of one who seeks to take control, / Destroys all lands that he beholds, with spite. / They are his spren, his gift, his price. / But the nightforms speak of future life, / A challenged champion. A strife even he must requite."

This soul, I believe, is Odium because he wants to destroy all lands with spite. And it says, they are his Spren.

What do you guys think? Or has this already been stated and I am blind in looking for it?

Edit: for some reason I put "parshendi are spoilers instead of Voidbringers" I must be tired.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Grayv

[Cheeky-eyes]

This is a good point, and the impression I got while reading was that the Parshendi on their own are not Voidbringers, but they have the potential to become them. So without bonding to the 'angry red spren', they are fine. It's only the bonding with those spren that trigger the change. How I got this impression was from the new Rhythms Eshonai was attuning too, each new Rhythm was the negative version of the other songs. For example:

 

 

She spoke to the Rhythm of Craving, a rhythm like the old Rhythm of Anticipation, but more violent. 

(Pg 900 of the Australian Edition of WoR by Gollancz. In the forth interlude.)

 

Each new Rhythm is a twist of the old ones, which is a reflection os the character and intent of the spren that control them. So it appears that, what can be assumed to be the Voidspren, are responsible for the Voidbringer form. While in Stormform it's implied that Eshonai's real personality is trapped within her somewhere, and is most likely the screaming she hears while attuning to the Rhythm of Peace. So while a part of Eshonai is in control it also appears that the spren she has bonded too has more influence as well.

[bartbug]

I totally agree with this. But there's even more that I want to add. I've been thinking about a theory for a while now, and it is kind of related to this.

We have WoB that Parshendi cannot create a Nahel Bond, but I still believe that they can have "Honorforms", if you catch my drift. A form that is used when bonding with a radiant spren. (This is all speculation. I have no proof). So, going on with this, I believe that the Voidbringers are the Spren, while the Voidbinders are humans who create a type of Nahel bond with the spren. Of course, the spren you would have to use would be a fallen form of the radiant spren. (Not necessarily once a radiant spren, but Odium's take on a similar concept).

Then this is where the Ten Fools come from: When you appose the idealogy of the Radiants with your actions, you invite the Voidbringers. I believe that Elhokar is attracting the Void-Cryptics, while Adolin will be some type of Voidbinder as well.

Sorry for the rambling.

[name_here]

Personally, I think the stormform Parshendi are Voidbringers, and the red spren is a Voidspren.

 

But really, I wouldn't attach too much importance to the precise semantics. Even if there was an original definition, the modern era uses Voidbringer pretty loosely. Dalinar calls the stormform Parshendi Voidbringers, so our modern Radiants will use the term to refer to them and similar forms.

 

 

Then this is where the Ten Fools come from: When you appose the idealogy of the Radiants with your actions, you invite the Voidbringers. I believe that Elhokar is attracting the Void-Cryptics, while Adolin will be some type of Voidbinder as well.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

On the Ten Fools: I think they're either creations of folklore or so distorted they might as well be. They symbolize ways of being incompetent and stupid, as opposed to active malevolence. The Unmade seem more likely to be the Heralds' opposite numbers. As for Elhokar and Adolin, they might not be following Radiant ideals very well but they're hardly bad enough to get Voidspren.

[Levian]

For some reason I have it in my head that the Parshendi fought alongside humans in the Desolations originally. It comes from the opening of WoK talking about how red blood and orange blood are mixed, and I'm pretty sure Parshendi blood is orange. We hear mention of the Heralds fighting Thunderclasts but not Parshendi or anything humanoid. Not much to go on really, but its what I think.

 

I also am pretty convinced that the Alethi are either Voidbringers, or influenced by Odium. The Thrill definitely isn't natural, and its only purpose seems to give satisfaction for killing, driving people to kill often to seek the pleasure from the Thrill. It almost seems as if it was done to them intentionally just so they would never be able to unite or have times of peace, which is exactly what is needed to prepare for a Desolation. The more unprepared and divided humanity is, the better chance that the Desolation will be successful in destroying them.

 

I'm not sure though if it's just the Alethi who feel the Thrill, or all humans on Roshar. Sorry this is a bit off topic but it seems to fit with talk of the Voidbringers! 

[Swimmingly]

One way for blood to mix is, you know, those containing it killing each other brutally.

[name_here]

I also am pretty convinced that the Alethi are either Voidbringers, or influenced by Odium. The Thrill definitely isn't natural, and its only purpose seems to give satisfaction for killing, driving people to kill often to seek the pleasure from the Thrill. It almost seems as if it was done to them intentionally just so they would never be able to unite or have times of peace, which is exactly what is needed to prepare for a Desolation. The more unprepared and divided humanity is, the better chance that the Desolation will be successful in destroying them.

 

I'm not sure though if it's just the Alethi who feel the Thrill, or all humans on Roshar. Sorry this is a bit off topic but it seems to fit with talk of the Voidbringers! 

 

The Thrill is caused by some form of aura generated by the Unmade Nergaoul, who is in close proximity to Alethkar and Jah Keved.

[Wolven]

I feel like the Parshendi, or Listeners, are as much a victim as anyone else.  It seems that they don't want to be Voidbringers.  Eshonai after all tried to back out of it the moment before the change came upon her.  Their story seems almost as tragic as Szeth's at this point.

[Duncan]

My first post, been lurking for a while.

 

I would agree that the parshendi aren't voidbringers when not infested with the red void spren. When they are infested then they are voidbringers (though not necessarily the only type of voidbringer) and they have several forms available to them all of which are voidbringer forms (available as a result of the voidspren infesting them). But I think that there may be other voidspren that can infest other things/creatures/people e.g. are thunderclasts voidbringers (when the voidspren take over the rock in Dalinars vision and the prologue to WoK)? I do recall Dalinar asking a radiant in an early vision about the shadow creatures he was fighting being voidbringers and the radiant said no.

 

In general, it seems to me that anything a voidspren takes over would have the intent of Odium and powers from the voidspren and so would be a type of voidbringer. But there may be other types of voidbringers beyond the infested parshendi (and their multiple forms), perhaps from voidspren that infest other creatures or, more interestingly, people.

[Levian]

One way for blood to mix is, you know, those containing it killing each other brutally.

I know, and it's definitely the obvious answer. I just feel that when Kalak was talking about the Thunderclasts and the dead and dying men on the battlefield, he would have mentioned something in passing about men fighting other humanoids, if it had happened. Obviously Brandon wouldn't give away such a crucial plot point in the prologue of the first book but still, I have a gut feeling that the Parshendi weren't Voidbringers - at that time at least.

 

I think it is the Odium spren that are the Voidbringers and they inhabit different things and instill their will in it. Case in point, in one of Dalinar's visions, he sees a spren in the waters of purelake go into the rock and make it come alive into a Thunderclast. I don't think they are dormant creatures hiding in the rocks waiting for something to come alive, the spren just animate regular stone into a Thunderclast. Something similar happens to the Parshendi. They originally just bonded spren in some way to change their forms and Odium saw how he could abuse this.